"Winchester Model 70…Controlled round feed!"
Question:
Earlier one posted that "no one has yet proven enhanced reliability over push feed rifles…". Not so. I stood and wateched a customer run 4 round through a push feed rifle without ever pulling the trigger and jam the fifth round right on top of the fourth. It was the first time he had ever seen a real live Kaibab Mule Deer buck up close. The deer stood there just long enough for this clown to muff the shot and then took off for Las Vegas. The beauty of the "external claw extractor" is that it picks up the rim of the case on the forward stroke and does not release is until it is bumped against the ejector on the back stroke. Thus it is almost impossible to try to load one round on top of the other. This unfortunate condition is not precluded with "push feed" rifles. Think about it. Dan dana j shinn Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
Response:
# # Earlier one posted that "no one has yet proven enhanced reliability # over push feed rifles…". Not so. I stood and watched a customer # run 4 round through a push feed rifle without ever pulling the trigger # and jam the fifth round right on top of the fourth. And this was the rifle’s fault? # It was the first time he had ever seen a # real live Kaibab Mule Deer buck up close. The deer stood there just # long enough for this clown to muff the shot and then took off for Las # Vegas. Understandable. Humans are defenceless against a deer’s stupid ray when it catches by surprise. # The beauty of the "external claw extractor" is that it picks up # the rim of the case on the forward stroke and does not release is # until it is bumped against the ejector on the back stroke. Thus it is # almost impossible to try to load one round on top of the other. Don’t assume that this is true just because you have a big claw extractor or because you have a factory fresh Model 70 or a custom M98. Unless the feed rails and magazine follower spring are properly tuned, these designs can and do allow rounds to pop up in front of the claw extractor. (Hence my comment last spring that the magazine is at least as important as the extractor.) When this happens you have a push feed rifle with delusions of grandeur. To guard against the ravages of mass production (in the case of a new M70) or of wear and tear (in the case of a custom M98), you must vigilantly test your rifle by running loaded rounds and empty cases through the rifle while you hold it in different orientations and while you operate the bolt both slowly and with bone jarring vigour. # This unfortunate condition is not precluded with "push feed" rifles. # Think about it. # Dan Would controlled round feed (CRF) have made any difference? Even if CRF had made the difference (which is open to question because even good CRF rifles are jammable), then would the poor fellow have coolly placed a killing shot? Neither CRF nor push feed preclude organic blue screen crashes. I don’t have anything against CRF. I do, however, challenge anyone who presents it as a substitute for skill at arms. (I doubt that that was your intention, but some people were bound to impose this misinterpretation on your post.) If someone is proficient with their weapon, then the difference in reliability between a -good- CRF rifle and a -good- push feed is vanishingly small. Keep your stick on the ice, Thos. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
Response:
#Earlier one posted that "no one has yet proven enhanced reliability over push #feed rifles…". Not so. I stood and wateched a customer run 4 round #through a push feed rifle without ever pulling the trigger and jam the fifth #round right on top of the fourth. It was the first time he had ever seen a #real live Kaibab Mule Deer buck up close. The deer stood there just long #enough for this clown to muff the shot and then took off for Las Vegas. #The beauty of the "external claw extractor" is that it picks up the rim of #the case on the forward stroke and does not release is until it is bumped #against the ejector on the back stroke. Thus it is almost impossible to try #to load one round on top of the other. This unfortunate condition is not #precluded with "push feed" rifles. #Think about it. #Dan I did. I got my Win Model 70 out, loaded it, short stroked it and guess what? It double fed!!! Furthermore, a typical malady of so-called CRFs is that if you push forward and down at the same time while the bolt is fully retracted, the bolt has a tendency to bind, especially with M-98 actions. You were saying? ..P To reply by e-mail, please remove the ".ns." in my e-mail address. It is my hope that it cuts down on the spam in my reader. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
Response:
I’m not English so I’m not familiar with this ’Controlled round feed’. But if I understand it right it didn’t eject the fourth round. I will say that there is definitely something wrong with the feeder. It’s supposed to hold the rim of the case and hold it untill it comes bach to eject position. There are something wrong with the claw or it can, most likely, have been that there was something wrong with the case. I’ve had that experience with the rim of the case on my rifle. But trying to feed the next round on top of the one before????? The customer must have been blind not noticing that the other case was still in the chamber. I have a Winchester mod.70 and are not very happy with it. To light and have problems with firing some types ammo with it. It’s out for sale and I gonna buy me a heavy barreled MauserM98S cal. 30-06. Much more reliable rifle and seldom clicks. In a hunting situation or competition it’s very frustrating and annoying when it clicks something Winchester have a bad habit of doing sometimes.
# # # # Earlier one posted that "no one has yet proven enhanced reliability # # over push feed rifles…". Not so. I stood and watched a customer # # run 4 round through a push feed rifle without ever pulling the trigger # # and jam the fifth round right on top of the fourth. # # And this was the rifle’s fault? # # # It was the first time he had ever seen a # # real live Kaibab Mule Deer buck up close. The deer stood there just # # long enough for this clown to muff the shot and then took off for Las # # Vegas. # # Understandable. Humans are defenceless against a deer’s stupid ray when # it catches by surprise. # # # The beauty of the "external claw extractor" is that it picks up # # the rim of the case on the forward stroke and does not release is # # until it is bumped against the ejector on the back stroke. Thus it is # # almost impossible to try to load one round on top of the other. # # Don’t assume that this is true just because you have a big claw # extractor or because you have a factory fresh Model 70 or a custom M98. # Unless the feed rails and magazine follower spring are properly tuned, # these designs can and do allow rounds to pop up in front of the claw # extractor. (Hence my comment last spring that the magazine is at least # as important as the extractor.) When this happens you have a push feed # rifle with delusions of grandeur. To guard against the ravages of mass # production (in the case of a new M70) or of wear and tear (in the case # of a custom M98), you must vigilantly test your rifle by running loaded # rounds and empty cases through the rifle while you hold it in different # orientations and while you operate the bolt both slowly and with bone # jarring vigour. # # # This unfortunate condition is not precluded with "push feed" rifles. # # Think about it. # # Dan # # Would controlled round feed (CRF) have made any difference? Even if CRF # had made the difference (which is open to question because even good CRF # rifles are jammable), then would the poor fellow have coolly placed a # killing shot? Neither CRF nor push feed preclude organic blue screen # crashes. # # I don’t have anything against CRF. I do, however, challenge anyone who # presents it as a substitute for skill at arms. (I doubt that that was # your intention, but some people were bound to impose this # misinterpretation on your post.) If someone is proficient with their # weapon, then the difference in reliability between a -good- CRF rifle # and a -good- push feed is vanishingly small. # # Keep your stick on the ice, # # Thos. # # Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: # http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ # # To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING # Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
