Remington 700 Reliability
Question:
> I will be in the market this year for a rifle to use for hunting and am > considering purchasing (NIB) the Remington 700 Mountain Rifle (.270 Win.). > After reading the many threads concerning the AD reported by CBS, I am > wondering if this a wise purchase. I understand that the trigger was > modified/ill mantained on that particular rifle. I also read many posts > reporting similar ADs. I also read many posts touting the reliability of the > 700. I understand poor mantainence and/or poor adjustment of the trigger could > cause an unsafe condition and the importance of having a qualified gunsmith > perform any trigger adjustments. So is the 700 a wise choice?
I am troubled by the reports concerning Remington. We have been seeing several first hand reports in this group and the guns group from guy who say they had the guns fire when moving the safeties. Now this is a small percentage of all the Remington 700s sold, but I have not seen any similar allegations concerning Brownings, Winchesters, Rugers, Savages, etc. A safety has to be absolutely safe on a high powered rifle since there is no place to point it in a people area safely except in a basement. Such a gun will penetrate too many house walls in a neighborhood to say it must simply be pointed down range and all will be safe. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> I will be in the market this year for a rifle to use for hunting and am > considering purchasing (NIB) the Remington 700 Mountain Rifle (.270 Win.). > After reading the many threads concerning the AD reported by CBS, I am > wondering if this a wise purchase. I understand that the trigger was > modified/ill mantained on that particular rifle. I also read many posts > reporting similar ADs. I also read many posts touting the reliability of the > 700. I understand poor mantainence and/or poor adjustment of the trigger could > cause an unsafe condition and the importance of having a qualified gunsmith > perform any trigger adjustments. So is the 700 a wise choice? > TIA > Stephan
I have had a few 700’s — never a failure. If you like it get it! I like the model 70 Winchester better, but not because of the 700 is bad. I just like the looks of the Winchester better. If you are looking for a light rifle, then look at the Remington Model 7 SS, in .308 Win. It can really take bad weather, never rust, or have the stock warp. Put on a Leupold compact 2-7 scope and you are ready for anything less that big bears. As a note, the Model 7 has the same trigger and safety as the Model 700. Regards, Steve Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> I will be in the market this year for a rifle to use for hunting and am > considering purchasing (NIB) the Remington 700 Mountain Rifle (.270 Win.). > After reading the many threads concerning the AD reported by CBS, I am > wondering if this a wise purchase. I understand that the trigger was > modified/ill mantained on that particular rifle. I also read many posts > reporting similar ADs. I also read many posts touting the reliability of the > 700. I understand poor mantainence and/or poor adjustment of the trigger could > cause an unsafe condition and the importance of having a qualified gunsmith > perform any trigger adjustments. So is the 700 a wise choice?
The 700 has been one of the most popular rifles made for decades. It’s probably one of the most numerous guns in sheer volume sold. If there actually were problems with it, you’d hear about it. You don’t see the TV making a fuss about cars crashing when people wear the tire completely bald, do you? : ) steve Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>I’m not sure how Remington sets triggers on factory rifles these days. Was >my MTN rifles 9lbs pull a fluke? Was the BGS 4 lbs. pull also a fluke? I >don’t know but the inconsistency of it means you will probably have to do a >trigger job.
I’ve bought two Remington’s in the last year, a 30-06 Mtn Rifle and a Model 7 in 7mm-08. I adjusted both triggers to 4 lbs or so. The trigger on the Mtn rifle was nice and crisp, but was (I’d guess) 7-9 lbs. The M7 trigger was not very crisp, and was even heavier. However, now it’s at 4 lbs with the creep taken out. On the mountain rifle I didn’t touch the other adjustment screws since I liked it how it was; I just lightened the pull. I took both rifles by the gunshop and had them hang their scale off of the triggers once I got them right. Also tested the safety, slammed the bolt home, slammed the butt o the ground with a cocked pin, etc. All seems well… So from my experience, I’d say the triggers are kind of variable. Worst trigger recently (tried, not owned) was on one of those Browning lever guns (BLR?). That trigger had just about everything wrong that it could have wrong. That was surprising! -jeff Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> Go to a library or bookstore and look for "Gunsmithing: Rifles" by > Patrick Sweeney (1999), ISBN: 0-87341-665-1. The chapter on "Trigger > Work" explicitly discusses the Remington 700 triggers. > -jc-
Thanks much John! This is exactly what I needed. Tommy Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
><snip> >I’ve bought two Remington’s in the last year, a 30-06 Mtn Rifle and a > Model 7 in 7mm-08. I adjusted both triggers to 4 lbs or so. ><snip> >I’m going to ask the question that nobody has dared to ask in all the
"Model 700 >Accidental Discharge" posts that I’ve seen. > Does anyone have any instructions on how to adjust Remington model 700 >triggers?
Do a search for "snipercountry.com". It’s there. It’s not hard. -jeff Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>Why would you load a high powered rifle in a house in the first place? >Return to gun safety 101. >Randy
This has already been pointed out on the list, but she was outside and shot through a horse trailer. More at: http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,270170-412,00.shtml Obviously a violation of gun safety though! I was one of the early posters on this topic and mistakenly said she was in a mobile home at the time of the accident and someone corrected me. As I recall, she was during the interview and demonstrating what happened, but not at the time of the accident. I appreciated the correction because we should not be misstating the facts (as I belive CBS did). The "TALK FORUMS" on HuntAmerica have quite a bit of info on this too: http://www.huntamerica.com My opinion is that we need to stand behind Remington on this–unsafe gun handling is the cause of this accident. There are a lot of references to Remington acknowledging a safety defect in internal memos, but as I read them it is only through deliberate manipulation–"tricked" as Remington states it–pulling the trigger in various stages of safety engagement. John Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> <snip> > I’m going to ask the question that nobody has dared to ask in all the "Model 700 > Accidental Discharge" posts that I’ve seen. > Does anyone have any instructions on how to adjust Remington model 700 > triggers?
Go to a library or bookstore and look for "Gunsmithing: Rifles" by Patrick Sweeney (1999), ISBN: 0-87341-665-1. The chapter on "Trigger Work" explicitly discusses the Remington 700 triggers. -jc- Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
I’d feel good about carrying a 700 any day. The mud Dan Rather throws don’t stick. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
<snip> I’ve bought two Remington’s in the last year, a 30-06 Mtn Rifle and a > Model 7 in 7mm-08. I adjusted both triggers to 4 lbs or so.
<snip> I’m going to ask the question that nobody has dared to ask in all the "Model 700 Accidental Discharge" posts that I’ve seen. Does anyone have any instructions on how to adjust Remington model 700 triggers? I had a copy from some magazine article at one time but I can’t locate it now. I know Remington recommends that end users never do their own trigger adjustment, but considering today’s litigious society, what else could they say? Please don’t bother to reply to "take it to a competent gunsmith". I try to do all of my own smithing and I accept the liability that comes with it. TIA, Tommy Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>A safety has to be absolutely safe >on a high powered rifle since there is no place to point it in a people area >safely except in a basement.
There is NO such thing as an "absolutely safe" safety. If your muzzle is pointed where an accidental discharge can do damage – - – it is the safety between your ears that needs to be engaged. Randy Wakeman Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> >A safety has to be absolutely safe >on a high powered rifle since there is no place to point it in a people area >safely except in a basement. > There is NO such thing as an "absolutely safe" safety. If your muzzle is > pointed where an accidental discharge can do damage – - – it is the safety > between your ears that needs to be engaged. > Randy Wakeman
So always work in a basement where there is, in effect, a berm 360 degrees I guess. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> > >A safety has to be absolutely safe > >on a high powered rifle since there is no place to point it in a people area > >safely except in a basement. > There is NO such thing as an "absolutely safe" safety. If your muzzle is > pointed where an accidental discharge can do damage – - – it is the safety > between your ears that needs to be engaged. > Randy Wakeman > So always work in a basement where there is, in effect, a berm 360 degrees I > guess.
Not necessarily. Why the heck are you chambering a live cartridge in a bolt action rifle when you’re indoors? Or if you do, why are you engaging and disengaging the safety with a round chambered in the house? That seems like the "mental" safety is failing and you’re asking for a guaranteed mechanical override on human stupidity. That’s what we call looking for a hardware solution to a software problem. Tom Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>So is the 700 a wise choice?
Absolutely. Ask any competition shooter, most use a 700 action. — Randy in Alaska Visit my page… http://home.gci.net/~randyinalaska Life Member, North American Hunting Club Life Member, North American Fishing Club Member, Varmint Hunters Association Member, Alaska Trappers Association Member, National Rifle Association Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.hunting Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:37 PM > A safety has to be absolutely safe > on a high powered rifle since there is no place to point it in a people area > safely except in a basement. Such a gun will penetrate too many house walls in a > neighborhood to say it must simply be pointed down range and all will be safe. Why would you load a high powered rifle in a house in the first place? Return to gun safety 101. Randy Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> I will be in the market this year for a rifle to use for hunting and am > considering purchasing (NIB) the Remington 700 Mountain Rifle (.270 Win.). > After reading the many threads concerning the AD reported by CBS, I am > wondering if this a wise purchase. I understand that the trigger was > modified/ill mantained on that particular rifle. I also read many posts > reporting similar ADs. I also read many posts touting the reliability of the > 700. I understand poor mantainence and/or poor adjustment of the trigger could > cause an unsafe condition and the importance of having a qualified gunsmith > perform any trigger adjustments. So is the 700 a wise choice?
Of course it is. Don’t change your mind because of this media attention at this time. For every M700 that has "accidentally" fired you can probably find a M77, M70, A-Bolt, etc….. In my experience most "accidental" discharges where the result of the finger being on the trigger. :) A better word would be "unintentional discharge". And as you pointed out there is usually issues of poor maintenance or improper trigger adjustment. Most gunsmiths will charge you under $50 to adjust a Remington M700 to about 3 lbs. of pull. My gunsmith (who is also an authorized Remington repair smith) will only adjust Remington M700s to 3.5 lbs. of pull. But if you do adjust the trigger on a Remington and send it back to Remington they will most likely charge you for a new trigger. The Remington M700 factory trigger is one of the finest in the business (for factory triggers that is). The mechanical safety is not my favorite for "safeness" like the Ruger M77 MKII or Winchester type safeties but it is sure faster to use in the field. I have many times had difficult getting the safety off on a M77 MK II under field conditions especially when using gloves and needing a snapshot. But the Rem M700 safety is faster and easier to operate with gloves than the Ruger or Winchester. But the Ruger or Winchester is a better safety. Factory triggers from Remington are kind of weird lately. Of my last 3 new M700s one trigger was 4.5 lbs., one was 9 lbs., and one was 4.0 lbs. They were on a Varmint Rifle, Mountain Rifle, and Big Game Synthetic rifle. Strange the BGS in .416 Rem Mag has a 4 lbs. trigger while the MTN rifle has a 9lbs trigger. I had the Varmint and MTN rifle triggers adjusted by my smith to 3.5 lbs. I’m not sure how Remington sets triggers on factory rifles these days. Was my MTN rifles 9lbs pull a fluke? Was the BGS 4 lbs. pull also a fluke? I don’t know but the inconsistency of it means you will probably have to do a trigger job. Lite > TIA > Stephan > Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: > http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
I will be in the market this year for a rifle to use for hunting and am considering purchasing (NIB) the Remington 700 Mountain Rifle (.270 Win.). After reading the many threads concerning the AD reported by CBS, I am wondering if this a wise purchase. I understand that the trigger was modified/ill mantained on that particular rifle. I also read many posts reporting similar ADs. I also read many posts touting the reliability of the 700. I understand poor mantainence and/or poor adjustment of the trigger could cause an unsafe condition and the importance of having a qualified gunsmith perform any trigger adjustments. So is the 700 a wise choice? TIA Stephan Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>So is the 700 a wise choice?
It always has been! Randy Wakeman Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
