Powders for 25-06, 30-06
Question:
I have seen the 3490 with the 4831 load listed, but it was from a 24" Win 70. My 22" tube on my Browning wouldn’t get anywhere near that. I can attest to this load being a MAX load. My buddy switched from CCI 200 to Fed 215’s (I won’t mention how dangerous this kind of a change is), but it pierced the primers on three loads, no visable smoke till the third one. H4831 is more forgiving as far as pressure goes than the IMR variant, but both will work. I’ve had my doubts about their numbers before with the 40 grain .22 BT in a 223. The tech I spoke with said try this load, I get 3,800 with it. The fastest I could make it go was 3,600. The best thing to do and I echo the sentiments of most responders, try it work up loads safely, and find what your rifle will like. Cause one thing I can count on is that my pet loads will not shoot well in your rifle 50.8 Grains of IMR4350, Rem Case, CCI 200 Primer, 115 Grain Trophy Bond Bear claw, 3,106 FPS, average group size .75" This is a max load, case life is very short and do not shoot this stuff if its hot out (plus 75 degrees). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: From what I am given to understand, IMR 4831 will take care of all but >: your most exacting needs in any long-action cartridge. It is stable & >: slow-burning and will not vary too much with altitude or temperature. >: For the 25-06 especially, in a good strong gun, you can crank out the >: most mind-bogglingly hot loads that are also safe & accurate. Check out >: the Nosler manual — 54 grains of IMR 4831 will send a 100-grain spitzer >: 3490 fps out of a 22" barrel (yes, that is 3490 fps; I did not >: mis-type). That is the max load they list, but oddly enough is also the >: most ACCURATE load they tested. >The Hodgdon manual lists 3272FPS out of a 26" barrel with 54 grains of IMR >4831, and I’m pretty sure that the velocity for IMR 4831 does not exceed >3300 FPS in the Hornady manual either for 100 grain bullets. What gives? >200 FPS is a lot of variation, especially when the higher velocity is listed >for a 22" barrel and the lower velocity is for a 26" barrel. >The max velocities listed in the Hodgdon manual for IMR 4831 are also >nothing special for the 30-06, about on par with claims of factory >ammo. >In cases where manuals conflict I always want to know what velocities >people have actually seen register on a chronograph. 3490 FPS for >a 100 grain .257 Partition or Ballistic Tip would be truely awesome. >The only factory loaded 100 grain 25-06 I know of (Federal Premium >NBT) only claims 3210 FPS. 280 FPS difference between factory and maximum >hand loads seems like a lot to me, especially in a cartridge like >the 25-06 where the SAAMI pressure is already quite high (63,000 PSI). >The two factory loaded 90 grain 25-06 I’ve seen both claim 3440 FPS, >a factor which makes 3490 for a 100 grainer more believable. In this >range of sectional densities, a 10% increase in bullet weight only >gives a 100 FPS velocity drop in 30-06, which makes the 230 FPS velocity >loss for a 10% increase in bullet weight seem excessive in the 25-06. >But then again, the 270 has a 140 FPS velocity loss for a 6.6% increase >in bullet weight which makes a 240 FPS velocity loss more reasonable >in the 25-06. And the 270 is probably a better comparison, being closer >to the 25-06 in both caliber and SAAMI pressure specs. >In any case, the numbers Nosler reports make me wonder if: >1. Nosler is juicing their numbers with a tight chamber or something >else to increase the pressure. >2. Hodgdon published "conservative" numbers for IMR 4831 so it didn’t >make H4831 look too bad by comparison. >3. Nosler bullets just fly faster than Hornadys and whatever Hodgdon >used. >4. None of the above and there is really that much variation from one >gun to the next. >– >Michael Courtney, Ph. D. >Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: > http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ >To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
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Response:
> In any case, the numbers Nosler reports make me wonder if: > 1. Nosler is juicing their numbers with a tight chamber or something > else to increase the pressure. > 2. Hodgdon published "conservative" numbers for IMR 4831 so it didn’t > make H4831 look too bad by comparison. > 3. Nosler bullets just fly faster than Hornadys and whatever Hodgdon > used. > 4. None of the above and there is really that much variation from one > gun to the next.
Nosler almost always uses match grade barrels with minimum chamber dimensions, so they’ll almost always get a lot higher velocity than we’ll see in a run of the mill factory sporting rifle. When you’re looking at the numbers … notice that Nosler’s .25-’06 barrel was only 22" long! (At least, in manual #3.) Tom Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
Response:
: From what I am given to understand, IMR 4831 will take care of all but : your most exacting needs in any long-action cartridge. It is stable & : slow-burning and will not vary too much with altitude or temperature. : For the 25-06 especially, in a good strong gun, you can crank out the : most mind-bogglingly hot loads that are also safe & accurate. Check out : the Nosler manual — 54 grains of IMR 4831 will send a 100-grain spitzer : 3490 fps out of a 22" barrel (yes, that is 3490 fps; I did not : mis-type). That is the max load they list, but oddly enough is also the : most ACCURATE load they tested. The Hodgdon manual lists 3272FPS out of a 26" barrel with 54 grains of IMR 4831, and I’m pretty sure that the velocity for IMR 4831 does not exceed 3300 FPS in the Hornady manual either for 100 grain bullets. What gives? 200 FPS is a lot of variation, especially when the higher velocity is listed for a 22" barrel and the lower velocity is for a 26" barrel. The max velocities listed in the Hodgdon manual for IMR 4831 are also nothing special for the 30-06, about on par with claims of factory ammo. In cases where manuals conflict I always want to know what velocities people have actually seen register on a chronograph. 3490 FPS for a 100 grain .257 Partition or Ballistic Tip would be truely awesome. The only factory loaded 100 grain 25-06 I know of (Federal Premium NBT) only claims 3210 FPS. 280 FPS difference between factory and maximum hand loads seems like a lot to me, especially in a cartridge like the 25-06 where the SAAMI pressure is already quite high (63,000 PSI). The two factory loaded 90 grain 25-06 I’ve seen both claim 3440 FPS, a factor which makes 3490 for a 100 grainer more believable. In this range of sectional densities, a 10% increase in bullet weight only gives a 100 FPS velocity drop in 30-06, which makes the 230 FPS velocity loss for a 10% increase in bullet weight seem excessive in the 25-06. But then again, the 270 has a 140 FPS velocity loss for a 6.6% increase in bullet weight which makes a 240 FPS velocity loss more reasonable in the 25-06. And the 270 is probably a better comparison, being closer to the 25-06 in both caliber and SAAMI pressure specs. In any case, the numbers Nosler reports make me wonder if: 1. Nosler is juicing their numbers with a tight chamber or something else to increase the pressure. 2. Hodgdon published "conservative" numbers for IMR 4831 so it didn’t make H4831 look too bad by comparison. 3. Nosler bullets just fly faster than Hornadys and whatever Hodgdon used. 4. None of the above and there is really that much variation from one gun to the next. — Michael Courtney, Ph. D. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
Response:
: For what you wish to do I would recommend RL-22 as the powder to try. : Now, some may take exception to using RL-22 in the .30-06 because it : is such a slow burning powder. To that I must agree that it would : seem to be too slow of a powder to be optimal; however, after trying : for about four years (off and on) to find a good ‘06 load for my : Featherweight I finally, in a rather desparate move, attempted a few : rounds with RL-22. This featherweight ‘06 sports only a 22" barrel : which is handy in the field but produces velocities much lower than : one would normally expect in a .30-06. This load of 63 gr. RL-22 and : a nosler 165 gr. BT (WW cases and Fed 215 primer) produced velocities : just over 2800 fps and punched groups that consistent measure between : .5 and .75" for five shots. I couldn’t be more pleased. If anyone : else has tried RL-22 in an ‘06 I’d be curious to hear comments of : your experience. The Hodgdon manual lists 2764 FPS for a max load of 63 grains of RL-22, so your numbers are right on. As a side bonus, the pressure is very low so I bet your brass lasts a long time. : In the .25-06 I’ve also been able to get good accuracy and stellar : velocities using RL-22. For reference, check out the Hornady manual : for RL-22 loads in the .25. Achieving 3600 fps with a 100 Nosler BT : in a 26" barrel was pretty easy and did not require a maximum load. If I remember right, the Hornady manual lists 3600 FPS as the max for 87 grain bullets and 3400 FPS as the max for 100 grain bulets. : Make sure your rings are high enough for the scope you intend to : mount. If you plan on a 50mm OBJ I’d recommend the Leupold dual : dovetail bases and super high rings. Good point, thanks for the tips. — Michael Courtney, Ph. D. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
Response:
> Michael Courtney ask >A peak at the Hodgdon and Hornady reloading manuals suggests >that H4831, H414, H4350, and RL22 are good dual-cartridge choices for these >bullet weights. Comments or suggestions for other powders?
All are fine – RL22 may not be the most efficient for the 06 but it will work OK. Alliant has it’s reloading guide online. IMR 4350 would also be a good choice. I have had real good luck with H-414 in the 06, don’t have a 25-06, the above "06’s" are 30-06 forgot that both were 06. BW Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
Response:
> My 25-06 (Remington 700 Sendero) is on the way to my FFL, and I’m about > to order an RCBS Rock Chucker reloading kit. I’ve also got a Rem 700 ADL > in 30-06 I’ll be reloading for. I’ll probably be shooting 90 and 100 grain > bullets in the 25-06 and 165 grainers in the 30-06, and I’m hoping to use > the same powders in both so that if a powder does not produce good results > in one gun, I can use it in the other rather than leaving most of a can on > the shelf. A peak at the Hodgdon and Hornady reloading manuals suggests > that H4831, H414, H4350, and RL22 are good dual-cartridge choices for these > bullet weights. Comments or suggestions for other powders?
I had really poor luck in the .25-’06 with standard primers; that’s in 3 rifles. Fed 215 mag primers worked much better across the board. It may not have a belt, but it has a long powder column and a relatively small neck … those mag primers help a lot with giving more consistent ignition. H414 is a bit too fast for optimal performance with 90-100 grain bullets in the .25-’06 … it is well suited for 75 grainers. Yotta try some of the Hornady VMAX just for kicks with H414 or WW760. For 85-90 grain bullets, I had my best luck with IMR 4350. My best luck in the .25-’06 with 100 grain and 120 grain bullets was with IMR 4831 and Fed 215 mag primers. I used RL 19; it worked ok but no better than IMR 4831. 4831 is probably not optimal for .30-’06, but it works pretty well with 180s. Otherwise, I’d say IMR 4350. You’re just going to have to mess around. When the reloading bug really bites down hard … you won’t care much about having two, or even 10, kinds of powderon the shelf, each for a single, specific application. Tom Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
Response:
My 25-06 (Remington 700 Sendero) is on the way to my FFL, and I’m about to order an RCBS Rock Chucker reloading kit. I’ve also got a Rem 700 ADL in 30-06 I’ll be reloading for. I’ll probably be shooting 90 and 100 grain bullets in the 25-06 and 165 grainers in the 30-06, and I’m hoping to use the same powders in both so that if a powder does not produce good results in one gun, I can use it in the other rather than leaving most of a can on the shelf. A peak at the Hodgdon and Hornady reloading manuals suggests that H4831, H414, H4350, and RL22 are good dual-cartridge choices for these bullet weights. Comments or suggestions for other powders? — Michael Courtney, Ph. D. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING
