NRA: Join or renew for LESS
Question:
>>> > Frankly, I’m thinking of joining Gun Owners of America. >Before you do, you should know that their president (Larry Pratt I believe >though for some reason I’m spacing on the name) is on friendly >terms (eg attends rallies etc) for both militia groups, and white >supremacy organizations. If you don’t want your money going to support >these types >of groups (and I’m sure you don’t) stick with the NRA.
Proof that the GOA funds the above, Jay? Or just your speculation? Randy Wakeman
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> One year memberships are now $25, a $10 savings. Three year memberships > are $70, a $35 savings. Five year memberships are $100, a $75 savings.
Why doesn’t anybody ever mention the "Liberty Membership" that I renewed with last year? It costs $15, and you don’t get the magazine subscription (big deal). I think the NRA would keep lots more members for $15/yr as opposed to $35/yr.
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>: If the NRA would pull their head out, they would take Rush >: hunting and shooting to get this EXTREMELY INFLUENTAL personality on our >: side. >Oh, I don’t know. Rush seems pretty good at witch hunting, already….
It would appear words are still cheaper then actions. If you are into the shooting sports and would like to maintain that freedom I suggest you put your money where your mouth is. Bruce Bennett NRA Life Member as of 6/26/96.
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Mr. Keane is absolutely correct and I applaud him for it. The NRA is the best organization we have, and if you can’t accept that not everyone wants to do things your way, then maybe you should live in China. If you are foolish enough to believe your vote is all that counts, then I pity you. Reality is no fun, but it is something we all have to deal with. If you own a firearm but aren’t a member of the NRA, you are cheating the rest of us who protect your rights. The NRA isn’t perfect (what is?) but it is by far the best we have. Any group that the liberal media spends a lot of time attacking MUST be good. There is no excuse for not being a member. Yes, I know, maybe you don’t agree with everything they do. Do you agree with Clinton then? Who do you agree with most? That is the question you have to ask when voting. Voting anything other than Republican this November ensures that your rights will be going down the toilet. Allan
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Joe- Forgive me if this opinion is too divergent or controversial, and I will accept the premise that it could disrail the majority of purpose for this group and should not be posted. If in fact the moderators choose NOT to post this however, I’d ask that they refrain from ANY posts regarding the NRA or requests for participation in memebership drives or support etc. I’m not certain if the moderated group will post much in oppostion to the NRA. I thought that I’d made some thoughtful comments before, but they never showed. You (and our moderators) are correct, however, in that this NRA thread could "take over" this group for an undetermined length of time, and the NRA debate is not why we are subscribing to a HUNTING group. But we as hunters should discuss this topic occasionally even if briefly. Many of us hunters are thoughtful, intelligent, insightful, patriotic, and yet in opposition to the NRA. The NRA, IMHO, is currently the second greatest threat to my rights to own and use my weapons. They are not our BEST weapon for defending our rights. I urge you all to FULLY support the NRA if you agree with EVERYTHING they are speaking on our behalf. If you disagree with some of thier extreme and unyielding views, then look elsewhere for a voice and offer the NRA only limited support. I’d like to hear of viable alternatives if you know of any. I will concede, however, that until we find a better voice, we should remain somewhat supportive of the only voice we do have. The NRA is endangering (by misrepresentaion) many of my rights, but they are also slowing the errossion of my rights in a few areas. If the NRA were to fade away without a replacement advocacy group I would be even more fearful of the results. Is there an appropriate news group forum for us to share views on this topic? These are my heart-fealt, honest and humble opinions. Please respect them and resist the urge to flame for flamings sake. Regards and good huntin’- Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->(snip) >So why not take back the NRA, and our country while we’re at it? If >we don’t, we only have ourselves to blame! >john thomas > John, > I think you make a good point and one we should all consider. > Boy. I hate to see this thread come up time and again in rec.hunting. > With all due respect to Ron Cain and others who don’t like the NRA, I > think we should all think long and hard about abondoning them. > It seems to me that they are the most effective, and at a minimum we > really should all be members. If you think they’re soft, fine, join a > smaller more strident group. But the press, the liberals, and the > elected officials who waffle back & forth in the changing political > winds, ALL monitor NRA membership. Declining, (or stagnant), > membership is what indicates weakness to alot of the wrong people, > and some of the right people.A strong NRA is still our best weapon > against the gun grabbers. If you want to be a member of some other > group too, fine. But this isn’t about boycotting your local vendor of > apparel or food, if we lose this battle, we won’t live to see the day > that the results are overturned. Think about it….. > …….So they send out too many solicitations…..let’s not cut off > our noses to spite our faces. > IMHO > joe
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I’ve never belonged to any group that i agreed 100% with, its the underlying philosophical foundation that is important to accept. frankly, i like the nra no prisoners taken approach, desparate times call for desparate acts. bolobean….nra lifer
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> <snip> >If you are foolish enough to believe your vote is all that counts, >then I pity you.
You couldn’t have picked a better time to say that. Look to what’s been put forward in the changes to legislation here following the Dunblane Shootings. Prime Minister John Major promised no knee jerk reactions to Lord Cullen’s report and within hours of it’s publication he announces that the only handguns that will be allowed are single shot .22 rimfire provided they are kept secure at approved gun clubs. All *three* major parties have adopted this attitude, the only difference being one wants *all* handguns banned period. Course this sort of radical change could never happen in the US could it? Ben Look over your shoulder Big Brother is coming!
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|> Many of us hunters are thoughtful, intelligent, insightful, patriotic, |> and yet in opposition to the NRA. The NRA, IMHO, is currently the second |> greatest threat to my rights to own and use my weapons. They are not our |> BEST weapon for defending our rights. I urge you all to FULLY support |> the NRA if you agree with EVERYTHING they are speaking on our behalf. If |> you disagree with some of thier extreme and unyielding views, then look |> elsewhere for a voice and offer the NRA only limited support. I’d like |> to hear of viable alternatives if you know of any. |> |> I will concede, however, that until we find a better voice, we should |> remain somewhat supportive of the only voice we do have. The NRA is |> endangering (by misrepresentaion) many of my rights, but they are also |> slowing the errossion of my rights in a few areas. If the NRA were to |> fade away without a replacement advocacy group I would be even more |> fearful of the results. Okay Steve, I’ll respect your opinions and won’t flame but I will ask how did you come up with your opinions. How is the NRA a threat to gun ownership? What do you consider "extreme" views? Why should the NRA or I for that matter be "yielding" when it comes to the Second Amendment? How is the NRA "misrepresenting" your rights? Before you answer, be sure the answers you give are truely NRA positions and not what you’ve "heard on the news". — NSWCDD Dahlgren, VA My views and opinions are my own! We don’t understand the software or the hardware but we can *SEE* the blinking lights!
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Ok guys, here it is. Should I, or should I NOT, join the NRA, and why? I want to join, but there is obviously some reasons why people think I should not, so please fill me in on this one. Thanks, Mike
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>Joe- >Forgive me if this opinion is too divergent or controversial, and I will >accept the premise that it could disrail the majority of purpose for >this group and should not be posted. If in fact the moderators choose >NOT to post this however, I’d ask that they refrain from ANY posts >regarding the NRA or requests for participation in memebership drives or >support etc. >(snip)
Steve, sorry if my post led you to believe that I advocate censorship of disagreeing opinions. This wouldn’t be much use as a newsgroup if that were the case. Your opinion is certainly as worthwhile as mine. I was trying to get people to look at how important this fight is, and just how damaging it would be to abandon the NRA. I believe very strongly that we should support them, EVEN if we don’t agree with them all the time. >Many of us hunters are thoughtful, intelligent, insightful, patriotic, >and yet in opposition to the NRA. The NRA, IMHO, is currently the second >greatest threat to my rights to own and use my weapons. They are not our >BEST weapon for defending our rights.
This is puzzling to me, what is our best weapon? >I urge you all to FULLY support >the NRA if you agree with EVERYTHING they are speaking on our behalf.
This I also cannot agree with. There will never be an organization with which I agree 100%. If this is the standard, I won’t likely be part of anything. Sitting it out and pouting is not my style. >If >you disagree with some of thier extreme and unyielding views, then look >elsewhere for a voice and offer the NRA only limited support. I’d like >to hear of viable alternatives if you know of any.
Again, I’m puzzled. You say the NRA is not our best weapon. Now you apparently know of nothing better. Please reconcile this for me. >I will concede, however, that until we find a better voice, we should >remain somewhat supportive of the only voice we do have.(snip) >These are my heart-fealt, honest and humble opinions. Please respect >them and resist the urge to flame for flamings sake. >Regards and good huntin’- >Steve
I’m not really sure how to respond to this. I hope my comments above indicate why. If there was something better than the NRA, I would certainly support them. On the one hand you seem to say they are not the best, and shouldn’t be supported. On the other hand you seem to be saying that we should support them until something better comes along? For my part, I don’t see much of their efforts as extreme. I certainly have heard many in the news media characterize them this way, but my own analysis of their postions doesn’t lead me to this conclusion. As far as unyielding…..let’s hope so. That is why I support them! For me this is all pretty basic. You can’t solve any problem until you identify the root cause(s) of it… Crime is no different…. 50 years ago we had little crime compared to today. At that time guns could be ordered through the mail, and ammunition could be purchased by an unacompanied child at a store. (I can even remember this being the case 30+ years ago). Now these things are illegal and crime is rampant, a great many crimes with firearms are now committed by children. Where is the connection between gun availability and crime? The history of the USA would indicate that if anything, restricting gun ownership is DIRECTLY proportional to increasing crime. The gun grabbers argument hinges on the notion that restricting gun ownership is INVERSELY proportional to increasing crime. THIS IS WHY THEIR ARGUMENT WILL ALWAYS FAIL, AND THIS IS WHY NO RESTRICTION WILL EVER BE ENOUGH TO SATISFY THEM! (caps added to emphasize, I am not screaming). In light of this fundamental truth, one can see why we cannot ever give in. We cannot compromise, because any restriction we allow will fail, (it will not get at the root cause). The next argument would then be, the previous restriction did not go far enough. This has been, and continues to be the pattern .of all proposed anti-gun legislation. We must support an alternative way to deal with the crime issue. That is what the NRA is doing. They are attempting to focus the attention on things that have historically had a direct, and parallel relationship with the increase in crime. Things like violence on TV and movies, the drug culture, soft judges, abolition of the death penalty, etc. I don’t think you will find an organization that is more behind making criminals pay for their actions. And likewise, you will not find an organization more effective in fighting the increased restrictions on those persons who are LAW ABIDING and wish to own guns. This is, fundamentally, in total agreement with the way I see the issue. I don’t consider it extreme to want to change a failed and flawed form of logic, that is simultaneously attempting to restrict my freedoms, and the freedoms of other law abiding people. The road to hell may be paved with good intentions, it’s certain that the road to ruin is. IMHO joe
Response:
To celebrate its 125th annivesary, NRA is having a dues sale. One year memberships are now $25, a $10 savings. Three year memberships are $70, a $35 savings. Five year memberships are $100, a $75 savings. If you are a member, take advantage of this sale to extend your membership at a low cost. If you want to join NRA, this is the time. I am an NRA recruiter and I can take care of your NRA membership needs either via e-mail or via s-mail. You can pay by check, money order, or credit card. Make checks/money orders payable to "National Rifle Association" The information that I will need to process your request is: Name Address Phone No. Date Of Birth NRA ID no (if a member and renewing Credit Card type, number, and expiration date (if paying by card) Choice of magazine (American Rifleman, a general gun magazine, or American Hunter, a hunting magazine) NRA benefits include $1000 in firearms insurance (more coverage is available at a low cost), $10,000 accidental death and dismemberment policy, a monthly magazine, a spiffy cap, and a decal for your car window to irritate your neighbors. You can send your information to me either via e-mail or to Mark Yaworski P.O. Box 603 Poolesville MD 20837-0603 Mark Yaworski NRA Life Member NRA Recruiter (Recruiter ID # I008608E) P.S. Life Memberships also available, ask about the Easy Pay Life Program.
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> To celebrate its 125th annivesary, NRA is having a dues sale. > One year memberships are now $25, a $10 savings. Three year memberships > are $70, a $35 savings. Five year memberships are $100, a $75 savings.
If you belong to a club affiliated with the NRA, you may wish to renew through your club. The club then gets credit for your renewal and I believe can keep some of the money for club activities. Doug
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> Frankly, I’m thinking of joining Gun Owners of America.
Do you have contact information for this group?
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: If the NRA would pull their head out, they would take Rush : hunting and shooting to get this EXTREMELY INFLUENTAL personality on our : side. Oh, I don’t know. Rush seems pretty good at witch hunting, already….
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> They shouldn’t have raised their dues in the first place-but that’s > spilled milk. Now they’re having to lower their dues to get people to > renew or join, using the excuse of the 125th anniversary. Sounds like > they’re very much out of touch with us shooters. And I’m saying this > as a former NRA member whose membership just expired last month. I have > NO plans to renew with the NRA.
Ron, I respect whatever decision you make, and am not trying to tell you what to do. However, I can’t help but believe that if Sarah Brady is reading your post right now, she’s got a big smile on her face. I have nothing against GOA, but they don’t have 3 million+ members. That kind of voting block is the ONLY thing politicians understand, from either party. Whether you own shotguns for bird hunting, rifles for deer, or a pocket pistol for self defense, the NRA is the best game in town for protecting your gun rights, plain and simple. You don’t have to agree with everything they do, but members have a chance to influence the organization in a direction they see as better serving them. Non-members don’t. Regards, J. Sean Keane
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> > Frankly, I’m thinking of joining Gun Owners of America. > Do you have contact information for this group?
Funny you should ask. I just got a "beg letter" from them today. Here’s the info you requested: GOA 8001 Forbes Place Suite 102 Springfield, VA 22151-9701 (703)321-8585 Cheers, Ron Cain
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->[original removed] > NRA Recruiter (Recruiter ID # I008608E) >No offense, Mark, but it sounds like the NRA is getting MUCHO desparate. >A dues sale? >They shouldn’t have raised their dues in the first place-but that’s >spilled milk. Now they’re having to lower their dues to get people to >renew or join, using the excuse of the 125th anniversary. Sounds like >they’re very much out of touch with us shooters. And I’m saying this >as a former NRA member whose membership just expired last month. I have >NO plans to renew with the NRA. >Frankly, I’m thinking of joining Gun Owners of America. They don’t take >"NO" for an answer and have the brass balls to prove it. In this day and >age when Marxists and homosexuals seem to be thought highly of, being >meek little conservatives just ain’t gonna get it. >If the NRA had competent leadership, they would picket Congress to >assure us of our rights. Let those crooks in Washington know we’re not >letting go of any more of our rights and trouble is ahead for all >traitors who try. >I heard Rush Limbaugh say on the radio last month that he had never >fired a gun. If the NRA would pull their head out, they would take Rush >hunting and shooting to get this EXTREMELY INFLUENTAL personality on our >side. But like I said, the NRA is out of touch (and out of luck). >Sadly, Ron Cain
The management of NRA is voted into office, just like the gov’t officials which we complain about so much. Instead of quitting the group and whining, why not vote them out of office in both cases? I know there are too many gun owners out there who won’t go to the polls, resulting in the liberals taking over. I live near Austin, TX where this is the case: less than 10% voter turnout for Austin elections is what I am hearing on the radio. In a state as pro-gun as TX, the capitol city is run by an anti-gun bleeding liberal group because the majority of the voting populace in the city is too sorry to do anything about it. So why not take back the NRA, and our country while we’re at it? If we don’t, we only have ourselves to blame! john thomas
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writes: >Frankly, I’m thinking of joining Gun Owners of America. They don’t take >"NO" for an answer and have the brass balls to prove it.
I don’t think Mr. Brass Balls is on my ballot this year. GOA’s problem is they don’t have any political clout, which makes everything else they do useless. I believe their candidate this year was Pat Buchanan, and we all know how he just ate up the competition this year. In other words, nobody cares that they don’t take NO for an answer because they don’t have any power. <<<< Marxists and homosexuals seem to be thought highly of, being >meek little conservatives just ain’t gonna get it.>>>
Just wondering, but how does GOA screen out homosexual prospective members? Do you, like, have to submit with your application an affidavit from your doctor attesting that you’ve had the clap 6 or 7 times or maybe a copy of your Hooters membership card? Regards, TSBench Bill Walker…Producer and Cohost of The Shooting Bench radio program…on a station near you or direct from the satellite at Spacenet 3, Trans 9, 5.4 audio freq. Every Sunday from 9pm to 11pm (Eastern time)
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I only respond because I too, will not reup in NRA. They continually and without member input being used at any level, put two women on the debate line who are not, In my professional estimation, the people who can best represent the shooter-hunter. Where is Wayne when you need him, not on the front line, but instead almost unheard of. As for the some of us who feel our money better spent on other organizations and individual campaigns, it is growing by leaps and bounds. The NRA has become a self serving, out of public touch organization. The life members are the stories most told, not of the everyday Joe, who gave them his money and hoped for the best and isn’t getting it. Sorry just a humble, bur very professional opinion. — <<<W.C.Bowser>>> **The Media’s handling of all matters, domestic and foreign,is hopelessly inept and always dangerously misleading…**
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>(snip) >So why not take back the NRA, and our country while we’re at it? If >we don’t, we only have ourselves to blame! >john thomas
John, I think you make a good point and one we should all consider. Boy. I hate to see this thread come up time and again in rec.hunting. With all due respect to Ron Cain and others who don’t like the NRA, I think we should all think long and hard about abondoning them. It seems to me that they are the most effective, and at a minimum we really should all be members. If you think they’re soft, fine, join a smaller more strident group. But the press, the liberals, and the elected officials who waffle back & forth in the changing political winds, ALL monitor NRA membership. Declining, (or stagnant), membership is what indicates weakness to alot of the wrong people, and some of the right people.A strong NRA is still our best weapon against the gun grabbers. If you want to be a member of some other group too, fine. But this isn’t about boycotting your local vendor of apparel or food, if we lose this battle, we won’t live to see the day that the results are overturned. Think about it….. …….So they send out too many solicitations…..let’s not cut off our noses to spite our faces. IMHO joe
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> > > Frankly, I’m thinking of joining Gun Owners of America. > Do you have contact information for this group?
I read an interesting article about the different pro-gun groups in Gun Test Magazine a few years back. As I remember Gun Owners of America spend most of the funds collected from members try to sell products and producing more fund letters to get money and spending very little on "real" lobby effect etc. or grass roots action in fact GOA was way down the ladder on poltical lobby work compared to the NRA. Sometimes that green grass on the other side might not be as green after all.
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: No offense, Mark, but it sounds like the NRA is getting MUCHO desparate. : A dues sale? <SNIP> : Frankly, I’m thinking of joining Gun Owners of America. They don’t take : "NO" for an answer and have the brass balls to prove it. I hate to sound harsh…. But what the heck, YOU ARE… Ever heard "there is power in numbers"????? I may only make <$13,000/year right now, but it is worth every damn penny of the $25 to keep Sarah Brady from being able to claim a victory like "the NRA is loosing support, even among collectors" or "people are running from the NRA like rats from a sinking ship." As for thier mismanagement, well, maybe the members should get off our butts and write about one letter a month to our elected reprsnts. and maybe one to the NRA themselfs telling them how we want our dues spent. Am I wrong, or did I recently hear the NRA had some layoffs (sad after building a awsome building and range). I hate to say you are being rash, but I think you are. If you are really worried about it, why not keep your NRA membership, and ALSO join the other orginization. Then send a letter with a copy of your check and membership info to the new orginization and a letter to the NRA stating that the $30 you spent on the other orginization could be spent on the NRA/ILA next year if they get thier $#!+ together.
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> As for the some of us who feel our money better spent on other > organizations and individual campaigns, it is growing by leaps and > bounds. The NRA has become a self serving, out of public touch > organization. The life members are the stories most told, not of the > everyday Joe, who gave them his money and hoped for the best and isn’t > getting it.
As a "every day Joe NRA member" I say: If you want to leave the only organization that has any meaningful politcal muscle fine. However, many prefer not to jump ship,they work to improve things in the organization. Remember when your a member you can vote. Your a gun banners dream, quiting the only real organization that is standing in their way of everything they want and joining some weak – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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Well said, Joe! = = >(snip) = = = >So why not take back the NRA, and our country while we’re at it? If = >we don’t, we only have ourselves to blame! = = I think you make a good point and one we should all consider. = = Boy. I hate to see this thread come up time and again in rec.hunting. = With all due respect to Ron Cain and others who don’t like the NRA, I = think we should all think long and hard about abondoning them. The number of people who post here that they either won’t join, or won’t re-join, NRA because they (NRA) are not perfect make me wonder if they also don’t vote because the politicians who are running are not perfect. If that’s the case, it’s little wonder that we can’t keep a reasonable number of pro-gun and pro-hunting politicians in office. Damn it! Nobody’s perfect. No person, no organization. Nobody. = It seems to me that they are the most effective, and at a minimum we = really should all be members. If you think they’re soft, fine, join a = smaller more strident group. But the press, the liberals, and the = elected officials who waffle back & forth in the changing political = winds, ALL monitor NRA membership. Declining, (or stagnant), = membership is what indicates weakness to alot of the wrong people, = and some of the right people.A strong NRA is still our best weapon = against the gun grabbers. If you want to be a member of some other = group too, fine. But this isn’t about boycotting your local vendor of = apparel or food, if we lose this battle, we won’t live to see the day = that the results are overturned. Think about it….. Exactly! And vote for the strongest pro-gun-rights people possible for the NRA board. I send what I can afford to GOA and CCRKBA also but do keep in mind that with NRA I get to vote for the people who run the organization; I do not with either GOA or CCRKBA. If you want to cover all bases, also take a look at Neal Knox’s outfit (the name of which escapes me at the moment). I’ve forgotten the number of hunters there are estimated to be in the U.S. these days but the number of gun owners of various kinds is estimated to be between 60- and 70-million. That means, to me, that some 57- to 67-million are kicking back and "letting George do it." = …….So they send out too many solicitations…..let’s not cut off = our noses to spite our faces. When their solicitations overwhelm, I figure I can throw them away just as I do with the ones from companies and organizations who don’t do a damned thing for me and who may well be working against me. Assuming that I’m not the only one who receives a constant stream of junk mail, it really amazes me how many people whine and cry about the solicitations from NRA. One wonders if they are that upset by all the other junk mail that they surely receive. If the rest of the junk mail bothers them as much as that from NRA, they must be nervous wrecks worrying about it all. = IMHO Ditto, of course. 
= joe — Best, Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby Los Alamos, NM "I’m the NRA!"
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>> > Frankly, I’m thinking of joining Gun Owners of America.
Before you do, you should know that their president (Larry Pratt I believe though for some reason I’m spacing on the name) is on friendly terms (eg attends rallies etc) for both militia groups, and white supremacy organizations. If you don’t want your money going to support these types of groups (and I’m sure you don’t) stick with the NRA. Not only is getting involved with white supremacy groups immoral, but it does far more damage to gun owners causes than anything Sarah Brady could do. think what McVeigh did to the chance to repeal the assault weapons bill for example. Please just say no to Gun Owners of America. Jay McCullough University of Texas
