Bullet questions
Question:
> My question is this: what does the ‘grain’ refer to? Is that the > projectile weight or powder weight? > What’s my best bet > for ammo type? And could someone tell me how each type of bullet > performs?
The "grains" is the projectile weight. There are 437.5 grains in an once. A 170 grain bullet will have a slightly more arced trajectory than a 150 grain. It also will have slightly more knockdown power available. This increased arc makes bullet placement more difficult at the longer range shots. You can pick up one of the major gun manufacturer’s catalogs, like Remington’s, and they have ballistic charts in the back for the ammo they sell. There is a wealth of information in these free brochures. They have the different bullet drops at different ranges for the different cartridges and the expected energy at particular ranges. The shape and construction of the bullet affects how quickly it expends its energy on the target. A very lightly jacketed hollow-point bullet can virtually explode when it hits but penetrate too poorly to bother vital organs for a quick humane kill on deer sized game. On the other end of the spectrum, there are "full metal jacket" bullets that keep their shape all the way through the target leaving a small hole and consequently waste energy hitting something beyond the target. In between these extremes there are a variety of bullets styles and shapes that deliver predictable controlled expansion for particular game in mind. For deer, the ideal is probably a bullet that will blow a good sized hole out the back side to facilitate an easier trailing job. I am currently doing some experimenting with Nosler partitions in my deer rifle. I switched from regular spire points. The spire points usually didn’t make it all the way through the deer (6 mm Remington in 100 grain). The mushroomed bullet would most often be found just under the skin on the far side after making a sizable wound channel though the heart and lung area. This didn’t lend itself to an easy trail because of the lack of an exit wound to release blood. (of course, on those kind of shots, there isn’t much trailing to do!) The partitions, which have a malleable front half and a pretty stable rear half, are designed to expand (mushroom) as much as possible but retain the bullet weight for maximize penetration. In my gun ,these leave about a one inch exit hole in a similarly shot deer. Great for a blood trail but you may need a blood trail because the deer didn’t usually fall in their tracks like they would with the spire points. Of course, if I hit a big shoulder bone, the partitions might have the advantage. The choices of factory-loaded 30/30 cartridges is limited to round or flat nosed bullets because of the preponderance of guns in that caliber with tubular magazines. For obvious reasons, you don’t want to stack cartridges tip-to-primer and expose them to recoil. For the situation you describe, thick cover and short shots, the heavier 170 grain bullet would be better for its ability to resist deflection by brush. Frankly, 20 grains isn’t a lot of difference in that application and either would do fine. Tommy Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
—– Original Message —– Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 4:48 AM > Use the 150 grain bullet on deer and the 170 on larger animals. > The 170 has a tougher jacket designed for more penetration and less
expansion than the 150 grain bullet. > : > I’ve read that there isn’t much difference between 150 and 170 grain. > : > My question is this: what does the ‘grain’ refer to? Is that the > : > projectile weight or powder weight? > Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: > http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> Hello. > I have a Marlin .30-30, Tasco 3-9X-40mm scope, and plan on using 150 > gr. Winchester SuperX Powerpoints. My dad had 150 gr. Remington Core- > Lokt bullets (he has an older Marlin .30-30). My oldest brother has a > Winchester (I think) top eject .30-30 rifle. He had a box of "old" 170 > gr.Winchester bullets (it didn’t say if it was powerpoint, etc.). > I’ve read that there isn’t much difference between 150 and 170 grain. > My question is this: what does the ‘grain’ refer to? Is that the > projectile weight or powder weight?
first off 150 and 170 grain are the weight of the bullet, ( 7000 grains to a pound ) , second most any bullet will work well with the 30-30 since it is not going very fast and you are not shooting it at long range. Pick a bullet that you like and that shoots well in your gun, and good luck hunting. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
Chris, Let me take stab at this for you seeing as my newphew just shot a 8pt and doe four days ago using a 30-30 Win. bolt-action Savage. Grain weight?: Grain weight refers to the projectiles’ weight (the bullet). Generally speaking, the hevier the bullet — the slower it goes. Is slower bad? No. The weapon/range and the type of game will help you choose. For whitetail deer (100 yds and closer) 150 grain bullet is sufficient. Yes, you can shoot 170 gr and may notice little difference, until you see the damage the bullet causes. Remember, it is bullet placement…….one more time, BULLET PLACEMENT. If you sight-in with 150 gr; don’t change to 170 gr out in the field and expect the rifle to hit the the 150 & 170 may be miniscule (say 100/150 fps) — there will be a difference. That’s with everything static (which never is). Now throw in some rain, brush, your cold, hungry and that 100/150 fps magnifies plenty. Type of bullet: Generally when using a rifle that is tubular fed; you are restricted to either using a rounded-nose or flat-point bullet so it can feed correctly (I believe Nosler still makes a flat-point for the 30-30 Win — call Nosler Manu. Tel # 503-382-3921). I have been using Nosler bullets for 7 years and highly recomend them. My nephew has a magazine-fed 30-30 Win. I am in the process of reloading bullets for him using Nosler Ballistic Tips 150 gr. The 30-30 Win has been a workhorse and will continue to be. Practice your bullet placement and you’ll be filling your tags on a regular basis. Good luck & be safe. Semper Fi, mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello. > I have a Marlin .30-30, Tasco 3-9X-40mm scope, and plan on using 150 > gr. Winchester SuperX Powerpoints. My dad had 150 gr. Remington Core- > Lokt bullets (he has an older Marlin .30-30). My oldest brother has a > Winchester (I think) top eject .30-30 rifle. He had a box of "old" 170 > gr.Winchester bullets (it didn’t say if it was powerpoint, etc.). > I’ve read that there isn’t much difference between 150 and 170 grain. > My question is this: what does the ‘grain’ refer to? Is that the > projectile weight or powder weight? > Also, I’m not sure that the Powerpoints that I have are what I should > be using. I’ve heard alot of good things about the Nosler Partitions. > I’ll be hunting about 40 minutes north of New Orleans, LA on a WMA > where the cover is heavy and shots will be short. What’s my best bet > for ammo type? And could someone tell me how each type of bullet > performs? Thanks to everyone in advance. > –chris > Before you buy. > Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: > http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
Hello. I have a Marlin .30-30, Tasco 3-9X-40mm scope, and plan on using 150 gr. Winchester SuperX Powerpoints. My dad had 150 gr. Remington Core- Lokt bullets (he has an older Marlin .30-30). My oldest brother has a Winchester (I think) top eject .30-30 rifle. He had a box of "old" 170 gr.Winchester bullets (it didn’t say if it was powerpoint, etc.). I’ve read that there isn’t much difference between 150 and 170 grain. My question is this: what does the ‘grain’ refer to? Is that the projectile weight or powder weight? Also, I’m not sure that the Powerpoints that I have are what I should be using. I’ve heard alot of good things about the Nosler Partitions. I’ll be hunting about 40 minutes north of New Orleans, LA on a WMA where the cover is heavy and shots will be short. What’s my best bet for ammo type? And could someone tell me how each type of bullet performs? Thanks to everyone in advance. –chris Before you buy. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
Chris, First…you’ll have trouble finding Nosler partitions in .30-30…they do make a 170 grain Round Nose partition…but most companies load .30-30 with a Flat Point bullet. This is because the Tip of one bullet rests against the primer of the preceeding bullet in the tubular magazines. My Marlin has a tubular magazine. 150 gr vs. 170 gr…Is the weight of the bullet. As far as performance…The .30-30 doesn’t get really fast to start with. I’d take a box of each to the range and shoot them at 100 yards to see which group better and go with that. I don’t think there’s a major difference in performance of a 150 vs 170 at the muzzle velocities generated by the .30-30. Good hunting Charlie Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> Chris, > First…you’ll have trouble finding Nosler partitions in .30-30…they do > make a 170 grain Round Nose partition…but most companies load .30-30 with > a Flat Point bullet. This is because the Tip of one bullet rests against > the primer of the preceeding bullet in the tubular magazines. My Marlin has > a tubular magazine.
The whole reason they make the Nosler partition bullet is to have a bullet that will expand at extreme ranges, but not blow up at close range, this is a hard thing to do when your pushing bullets at 3,000 fps or more up close and down to under 2,000 fps way out there, thus the partition was created to make one bullet fill both hunting applications and everything in between. When using the 30/30 this is never a problem, because of the low starting speed and the very short ranges it is used, your speed variations are much less at the target. Bullets regularly used in the 30/30 will still expand well and 150 yds, and still penetrate well at 10 yds, without coming apart. If they make a partition bullet for the 30/30, it would be throwing your money away to buy them Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
The grain in the lax label refers to the bullet weight. The factory loads for the 30-30 are 150 and 170s although you can still find some 55 grain 22 bullets loaded with a plastic sabot. As you know, there is about 7,000 grains per lb of weight. For your information, most 30-30 loads use about 30s grains of powder (to be specific it uses 34.5 grains of WW748, or 33.5 grains of Reloader 12, or 36 grains of Reloader 15 with the 150 grain bullet, a few grains less with the 170 grain bullet) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 8:51 PM > Hello. > I have a Marlin .30-30, Tasco 3-9X-40mm scope, and plan on using 150 > gr. Winchester SuperX Powerpoints. My dad had 150 gr. Remington Core- > Lokt bullets (he has an older Marlin .30-30). My oldest brother has a > Winchester (I think) top eject .30-30 rifle. He had a box of "old" 170 > gr.Winchester bullets (it didn’t say if it was powerpoint, etc.). > I’ve read that there isn’t much difference between 150 and 170 grain. > My question is this: what does the ‘grain’ refer to? Is that the > projectile weight or powder weight? > Also, I’m not sure that the Powerpoints that I have are what I should > be using. I’ve heard alot of good things about the Nosler Partitions. > I’ll be hunting about 40 minutes north of New Orleans, LA on a WMA > where the cover is heavy and shots will be short. What’s my best bet > for ammo type? And could someone tell me how each type of bullet > performs? Thanks to everyone in advance. > –chris > Before you buy. > Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: > http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> I have a Marlin .30-30, Tasco 3-9X-40mm scope, and plan on using 150 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> gr. Winchester SuperX Powerpoints. My dad had 150 gr. Remington Core- > Lokt bullets (he has an older Marlin .30-30). My oldest brother has a > Winchester (I think) top eject .30-30 rifle. He had a box of "old" 170 > gr.Winchester bullets (it didn’t say if it was powerpoint, etc.). > I’ve read that there isn’t much difference between 150 and 170 grain. > My question is this: what does the ‘grain’ refer to? Is that the > projectile weight or powder weight? > Also, I’m not sure that the Powerpoints that I have are what I should > be using. I’ve heard alot of good things about the Nosler Partitions. > I’ll be hunting about 40 minutes north of New Orleans, LA on a WMA > where the cover is heavy and shots will be short. What’s my best bet > for ammo type? And could someone tell me how each type of bullet > performs? Thanks to everyone in advance. > –chris
MOST IMPORTANT: If your 30-30 has a tubular magazine (the cartridges are carried end to end) you MUST use flat nosed bullets. Otherwise you risk a cartridge being fired when recoil or a dropped gun slams a bullet point against the primer of the cartridge ahead of it. The result is spectacular but you wouldn’t enjoy it even if you lived through it. You didn’t say if you are using factory ammo or reloads. If you use factory ammo, most, if not all, will be flat. If you reload, you need to read manufacturers literature. Most pointed type bullets are designed for much higher velocities than the 30-30 can provide. These won’t expand properly on impact. I think you would have this problem with the Nosler partitions If they make a partition for the 30-30, I’m not aware of it, but it would be good. 150 gr. and 170 gr. are fairly similar as long as they are designed for low velocity. If you use factory ammo, any name brand will do you a good job for close range deer. If you’re hunting pigs, ask someone other than me. With a 30-30 and factory ammo, don’t get carried away worrying about bullet types, etc. There really isn’t that much difference at 30-30 velocity. Just enjoy the hunt. Reloading, however, is a different world. The grain weight refers to the bullet. Factory ammo won’t tell you powder weight. It would be meaningless unless you know the powder type, too, which factory ammo will never tell you. They don’t print their secret recipes on the box. . Dick F. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
