barrel twist?
Question:
: Since there seem to be many people knowledgeable : in the area of blackpowder arms, I would like : to pose a question of the group. I bought a : 1 year old TC hawken style rifle with a 1:48 : twist, forgot the barrel length (C.R.S.!) but : it is long…to use someone elses term not "a : short barreled wanna be". Not trying to get that : debate started again…just bought the best deal I : could find! : I have written (snail mail) for an owners manual : but, do not yet have one. My question is this: : Which style of ammo (ball, conical, sabot) : theoretically will shoot better with this barrel : and twist rate? I have shot the rifle on one outing : and used 240 gr. sabots and got about a 1 3/4" : three shot groups at 75 yds. 1 in 48" twist in on the margin for 240 gr sabots. As a general rule, the longer a bullet, the higher the twist rate required. I would guess that most 1 in 48" twist rifles don’t shoot 240 gr sabots well, and I would bet yours would not shoot very well with a 300 grain sabot. However, there are always exceptions to these general rules. 1 3/4" groups at 75 yards is good and you’ll probably have to work hard to beat it. You can try conicals and round balls, but the trajectory of saboted bullets is better beyond 75 yards, assuming you don’t lose stabilization. If you plan on shooting at game beyond 75 yards, I would test the saboted 240 grain bullet out there to confirm that accuracy is maintained and thay the bullet does not tumble. — Michael Courtney, Ph. D.
Response:
> I have written (snail mail) for an owners manual > but, do not yet have one. My question is this: > Which style of ammo (ball, conical, sabot) > theoretically will shoot better with this barrel > and twist rate? I have shot the rifle on one outing > and used 240 gr. sabots and got about a 1 3/4" > three shot groups at 75 yds. > Should I just breakdown and buy all 3 and try them > or is there a "general rule of thumb"? I know those > rules of thumb can be dangerous suppositions!! > Any thoughts, comments or concerns I’d like to hear > them!
Bruce, I certainly do not claim to be a muzzleloading expert, but I have been using them for 20 years and can comment on my own experiences. First, when discussing twist, you must also include the caliber; they go hand in hand. I believe the T/C Hawken has been made in .45, .50, and .54. Generally speaking, though, T/C’s default twist of 1 turn in 48" is somewhat of a compromise twist. It will shoot both elongated bullets and patched round balls adequately. The problem is that it is too slow a twist to shoot elongated bullets well under most hunting conditions, and is too fast to shoot patched round balls with heavy charges. If you are just plinking, it does fairly well with patched round balls at moderate (target) velocities. The other problem is that their rifling is fairly shallow. I tried a lot of variations in my .50 Renegade and finally ended up buying a T/C aftermarket barrel with a 1 in 66" twist (and it is also a longer barrel with deeper cut rifling). This has made my Renegade into an excellent round ball shooter. But, if you are getting 1 3/4" groups at 75 yards, yours is shooting quite satisfactorally. BUT, what load is achieving this group, and, if you are going to go hunting with this load, is it sufficient for the game you are pursuing? You should order the booklet that T/C puts out for your rifle, and also Sam Fadala’s excellent handbook on shooting and caring for muzzleloading rifles. Hope any of this helped. Larry
Response:
> I have written (snail mail) for an owners manual > but, do not yet have one. My question is this: > Which style of ammo (ball, conical, sabot) > theoretically will shoot better with this barrel > and twist rate? I have shot the rifle on one outing > and used 240 gr. sabots and got about a 1 3/4" > three shot groups at 75 yds. > Should I just breakdown and buy all 3 and try them > or is there a "general rule of thumb"? I know those > rules of thumb can be dangerous suppositions!! > Any thoughts, comments or concerns I’d like to hear > them!
Bruce, Break down and buy all three types of projectiles. Furthermore, get as many different bullet weights as possible. You will be supprised at the different results you get when you change the bullet weight by 20 or 30 grains. Once you get all of the different bullets, don’t forget to try each one with powder charges in variing increments. A difference in 10 grains can mean 5" groups or 1" groups. ED
Response:
Greetings all! Since there seem to be many people knowledgeable in the area of blackpowder arms, I would like to pose a question of the group. I bought a 1 year old TC hawken style rifle with a 1:48 twist, forgot the barrel length (C.R.S.!) but it is long…to use someone elses term not "a short barreled wanna be". Not trying to get that debate started again…just bought the best deal I could find! I have written (snail mail) for an owners manual but, do not yet have one. My question is this: Which style of ammo (ball, conical, sabot) theoretically will shoot better with this barrel and twist rate? I have shot the rifle on one outing and used 240 gr. sabots and got about a 1 3/4" three shot groups at 75 yds. Should I just breakdown and buy all 3 and try them or is there a "general rule of thumb"? I know those rules of thumb can be dangerous suppositions!! Any thoughts, comments or concerns I’d like to hear them! PS I believe Missouri hunting regs allow both kinds of ammo bruce
