Toilet Training – On the toilet

Question:

Good luck with your cat’s potty training. The last thing we need at my house is someone else sharing the bathroom!

Response:

> Right.  I’m a bit disappointed.  This is the 1st Newsgroup I’ve gone to > where I could not get an answer to a simple question.

Obviously it’s not a simple question. If you don’t like the responses you get here, why not do a web search? Judy

Response:

> I’ve just looked in here for a possible solution to a problem.  I suppose > this has been discussed before so please bear with me. > I have been training my cat to use the toilet as his litterbox.  He will > urinate in it every time like it’s the most natural thing in the world.  But > he just won’t jump up there to defecate.  If I grab him and put him up on > the seat it’s no problem.  He just won’t do it by himself. > Any ideas? > Thanks, > Darrell

I think he might object to the splashing.  Or perhaps he needs a seat he can get his claws into, so he feels more secure. We had a cat who lived to be very old (nearly 25) who used to use the toilet when she felt her litterbox was in need of a change.  Myself personally, I always thought we should encourage her in the practice, but since she never looked particularly comfortable, and would always look at us reproachfully if we happened to catch her in the act, we used to take our cue and change the litter post-haste.  This in spite of scooping and a routine twice-weekly change.

Response:

>Right.  I’m a bit disappointed.  This is the 1st Newsgroup I’ve gone to >where I could not get an answer to a simple question. >I don’t care to get into a protracted argument here, but I have to ask those >who state that toilet training isn’t "Natural": What is natural about having >a spayed or neutered, nocturnal hunting, aboral dwelling carnivore living in >your house?

"Natural" doesn’t matter.  If you try to force your cat to do something he doesn’t like, then you’re stressing him out. Especially, when it comes to his "restroom" habits.  If you keep trying, you may end up with piss all over your jacket or shoes. DJN

Response:

>This is a big problem around here. If >people don’t agree with what you are >doing, your question goes unanswered.

This is by far the most moronic statement I’ve seen anyone post on this group in quite some time. When someone posts asking how to do something that is harmful or causes unnecessary stress to a cat, we have an OBLIGATION to dissuade them. Answering their question with advice on how to achieve a goal which causes harm or unnecessary stress to a cat is unconscionable. Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu’s Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

Response:

>I have read it isn’t a good idea. Please >read >http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/toilet >html

 I would like to point out here that this article is a plagiarized version of a newsgroup post I wrote a few years ago. Susie Bachman stole it. See http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&th=91f55dda471ae53… Megan "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu’s Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

Response:

If you do succeed, he’s not going to flush, is he? You could be setting up some awful stink problems and embarrassing situations with visitors. And what will da cat do when da bog’s in use? When a cat’s gotta go, a cat’s gotta go.  I think if your cat was at all inclined to poo in the toilet, he’d already be doing it. Attempting to force the issue might damage his relationship with you.  I’m not a Freudian, but I can see plenty of potential for future oddities related to potty-training-gone-wrong. The anal cat – what a thought! Behavioural reinforcement relies on encouraging elements of existing behaviour, not creating new behaviours. Cats have an already well-documented tendency to urinate into bathroom and laundry drains, plug-holes etc and the pan isn’t too far removed from that, but I think that’s as far as it goes. Try clumping cat litter. Much less fuss.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve just looked in here for a possible solution to a problem.  I suppose > this has been discussed before so please bear with me. > I have been training my cat to use the toilet as his litterbox.  He will > urinate in it every time like it’s the most natural thing in the world. But > he just won’t jump up there to defecate.  If I grab him and put him up on > the seat it’s no problem.  He just won’t do it by himself. > Any ideas? > Thanks, > Darrell

Response:

Okay, here’s my thinking – do people teach the cat to flush too? Because the poop is just going to sit in the toilet and stink anyway. Why go thru the hassle to train him/her? If the cat likes doing it, he/she will do it. Obviously the cat doesn’t mind urinating, but doesn’t like crapping in the toilet. So give the poor thing a litter box and be done with it already! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > There may not even be an answer to your question, since your cat doesn’t > want to poop on the toilet.  And since no one who’s answered so far, incl. > me, is "pro" making a cat use a human’s toilet, then I for one, am not going > to cudgel my brain trying to figure out a way to entice him to do it. > Especially when I know it’s only for your convenience, because you don’t > want to scoop a litter box, as people w/ cats realize is part & parcel of > having a cat.  Clumping litter – which is widely available these days – > makes keeping a litter box clean super-simple. > If you had asked a question which made a whole lot more sense, re: cats, > people would’ve freely given you plenty of advice, provided there was an > answer to be had. > Cathy > — > "Staccato signals of constant information…" > ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon >Right.  I’m a bit disappointed.  This is the 1st Newsgroup I’ve gone to >where I could not get an answer to a simple question. >I don’t care to get into a protracted argument here, but I have to ask > those >who state that toilet training isn’t "Natural": What is natural about > having >a spayed or neutered, nocturnal hunting, aboral dwelling carnivore living > in >your house? >>OK – thank you all for your input.  But let me rephrase the question. >>I’m not looking for suggestions on weather or not this is a good or >>bad idea. It is what we’re doing until our living circumstances >>change.  When that happens, the cat-door gets installed and my boy >>will be free to run outside as he pleases, just like all my previous >>cats.  I’m sure this may cause howls of indignation, but as you all >>stated, cats are predators, need to be cats and need to run.  I’m in >>total agreement.  BUT – in the meantime, I’m NOT fooling with a >>litterbox.  Agreed, it’s for my convenienc, not his.  But there’s a >>pet in the house and a pet owner in the house.  Sorry, but I get to >>lay down the rules. >>So, does anyone have any constructive ideas on how to get "The Dude" >>to take a dump in the commode?  Like I mentioned before, he’s >>perfrctly capable, I believe the boy is just giving me attitude. >>>I’ve just looked in here for a possible solution to a problem.  I >>>suppose this has been discussed before so please bear with me. >>>I have been training my cat to use the toilet as his litterbox.  He >>>will urinate in it every time like it’s the most natural thing in >>>the world. >>But >>>he just won’t jump up there to defecate.  If I grab him and put him >>>up on the seat it’s no problem.  He just won’t do it by himself. >>>Any ideas? >>>Thanks, >>>Darrell >This is a big problem around here. If people don’t agree with what you are >doing, your question goes unanswered. I don’t have anything constructive > to >say. I once had a cat who started urinating in the toilet by himself!  I >have no idea what was in his mind. I’ve never had the inclination to > toilet >train since, but I understand that it’s possible.

Response:

> Right.  I’m a bit disappointed.  This is the 1st Newsgroup I’ve gone to > where I could not get an answer to a simple question. > I don’t care to get into a protracted argument here, but I have to ask those > who state that toilet training isn’t "Natural": What is natural about having > a spayed or neutered, nocturnal hunting, aboral dwelling carnivore living in > your house?

We have domesticated these animals over thousands of years. They are our responsibility. Spaying and neutering is the only way to keep populations down. Maybe it’s not natural, but their health can benefit from it and it is WAY more natural than euthanasia at some shelter. Not sure why you include nocturnal hunting in your list. Look, if someone here has advice and believe t- training is a good idea they are free to give it, but as you see the vast majority of cat companions here do NOT believe it is a good idea and supported their views with examples of why it can be difficult for the cat. All you did was admit this is for your own convenience. You do the math. Karen

Response:

There may not even be an answer to your question, since your cat doesn’t want to poop on the toilet.  And since no one who’s answered so far, incl. me, is "pro" making a cat use a human’s toilet, then I for one, am not going to cudgel my brain trying to figure out a way to entice him to do it. Especially when I know it’s only for your convenience, because you don’t want to scoop a litter box, as people w/ cats realize is part & parcel of having a cat.  Clumping litter – which is widely available these days – makes keeping a litter box clean super-simple. If you had asked a question which made a whole lot more sense, re: cats, people would’ve freely given you plenty of advice, provided there was an answer to be had. Cathy — "Staccato signals of constant information…" ("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Right.  I’m a bit disappointed.  This is the 1st Newsgroup I’ve gone to > where I could not get an answer to a simple question. > I don’t care to get into a protracted argument here, but I have to ask those > who state that toilet training isn’t "Natural": What is natural about having > a spayed or neutered, nocturnal hunting, aboral dwelling carnivore living in > your house? > OK – thank you all for your input.  But let me rephrase the question. > I’m not looking for suggestions on weather or not this is a good or > bad idea. It is what we’re doing until our living circumstances > change.  When that happens, the cat-door gets installed and my boy > will be free to run outside as he pleases, just like all my previous > cats.  I’m sure this may cause howls of indignation, but as you all > stated, cats are predators, need to be cats and need to run.  I’m in > total agreement.  BUT – in the meantime, I’m NOT fooling with a > litterbox.  Agreed, it’s for my convenienc, not his.  But there’s a > pet in the house and a pet owner in the house.  Sorry, but I get to > lay down the rules. > So, does anyone have any constructive ideas on how to get "The Dude" > to take a dump in the commode?  Like I mentioned before, he’s > perfrctly capable, I believe the boy is just giving me attitude. >> I’ve just looked in here for a possible solution to a problem.  I >> suppose this has been discussed before so please bear with me. >> I have been training my cat to use the toilet as his litterbox.  He >> will urinate in it every time like it’s the most natural thing in >> the world. > But >> he just won’t jump up there to defecate.  If I grab him and put him >> up on the seat it’s no problem.  He just won’t do it by himself. >> Any ideas? >> Thanks, >> Darrell > This is a big problem around here. If people don’t agree with what you are > doing, your question goes unanswered. I don’t have anything constructive to > say. I once had a cat who started urinating in the toilet by himself!  I > have no idea what was in his mind. I’ve never had the inclination to toilet > train since, but I understand that it’s possible.

Response:

Our suggestions stand. This is a BAD idea. Karen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> OK – thank you all for your input.  But let me rephrase the question.  I’m > not looking for suggestions on weather or not this is a good or bad idea. > It is what we’re doing until our living circumstances change.  When that > happens, the cat-door gets installed and my boy will be free to run outside > as he pleases, just like all my previous cats.  I’m sure this may cause > howls of indignation, but as you all stated, cats are predators, need to be > cats and need to run.  I’m in total agreement.  BUT – in the meantime, I’m > NOT fooling with a litterbox.  Agreed, it’s for my convenienc, not his. But > there’s a pet in the house and a pet owner in the house.  Sorry, but I get > to lay down the rules. > So, does anyone have any constructive ideas on how to get "The Dude" to take > a dump in the commode?  Like I mentioned before, he’s perfrctly capable, I > believe the boy is just giving me attitude. > I’ve just looked in here for a possible solution to a problem.  I suppose > this has been discussed before so please bear with me. > I have been training my cat to use the toilet as his litterbox.  He will > urinate in it every time like it’s the most natural thing in the world. > But > he just won’t jump up there to defecate.  If I grab him and put him up on > the seat it’s no problem.  He just won’t do it by himself. > Any ideas? > Thanks, > Darrell

Response:

> Why are you trying to train your cat to use the toilet? What’s wrong with > him using a litterbox? > Judy

Maybe he doesn’t like the smell of the litter box.  If I’m home, I clean their litter box immediately after they go to the bathroom because I can smell it.  I very briefly thought about training my cats to use the toilet, but I decided against it.

Response:

>OK – thank you all for your input.  But let me rephrase the question.  I’m >not looking for suggestions on weather or not this is a good or bad idea. >It is what we’re doing until our living circumstances change.  When that >happens, the cat-door gets installed and my boy will be free to run outside >as he pleases, just like all my previous cats.  I’m sure this may cause >howls of indignation, but as you all stated, cats are predators, need to be >cats and need to run.  I’m in total agreement.  BUT – in the meantime, I’m >NOT fooling with a litterbox.  Agreed, it’s for my convenienc, not his.  But >there’s a pet in the house and a pet owner in the house.  Sorry, but I get >to lay down the rules.

If a cat doesn’t want to do something, you can’t make him do it.  If your try to force him, you’ll stress him out.  If you don’t like fooling with a litterbox, which is minimal work, maybe you should get yourself a dog or even better a pet rock.  Cats don’t buy into "I get to lay down the rules". DJN

Response:

Right.  I’m a bit disappointed.  This is the 1st Newsgroup I’ve gone to where I could not get an answer to a simple question. I don’t care to get into a protracted argument here, but I have to ask those who state that toilet training isn’t "Natural": What is natural about having a spayed or neutered, nocturnal hunting, aboral dwelling carnivore living in your house?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > OK – thank you all for your input.  But let me rephrase the question. > I’m not looking for suggestions on weather or not this is a good or > bad idea. It is what we’re doing until our living circumstances > change.  When that happens, the cat-door gets installed and my boy > will be free to run outside as he pleases, just like all my previous > cats.  I’m sure this may cause howls of indignation, but as you all > stated, cats are predators, need to be cats and need to run.  I’m in > total agreement.  BUT – in the meantime, I’m NOT fooling with a > litterbox.  Agreed, it’s for my convenienc, not his.  But there’s a > pet in the house and a pet owner in the house.  Sorry, but I get to > lay down the rules. > So, does anyone have any constructive ideas on how to get "The Dude" > to take a dump in the commode?  Like I mentioned before, he’s > perfrctly capable, I believe the boy is just giving me attitude. > I’ve just looked in here for a possible solution to a problem.  I > suppose this has been discussed before so please bear with me. > I have been training my cat to use the toilet as his litterbox.  He > will urinate in it every time like it’s the most natural thing in > the world. > But > he just won’t jump up there to defecate.  If I grab him and put him > up on the seat it’s no problem.  He just won’t do it by himself. > Any ideas? > Thanks, > Darrell

This is a big problem around here. If people don’t agree with what you are doing, your question goes unanswered. I don’t have anything constructive to say. I once had a cat who started urinating in the toilet by himself!  I have no idea what was in his mind. I’ve never had the inclination to toilet train since, but I understand that it’s possible.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > OK – thank you all for your input.  But let me rephrase the question. > I’m not looking for suggestions on weather or not this is a good or > bad idea. It is what we’re doing until our living circumstances > change.  When that happens, the cat-door gets installed and my boy > will be free to run outside as he pleases, just like all my previous > cats.  I’m sure this may cause howls of indignation, but as you all > stated, cats are predators, need to be cats and need to run.  I’m in > total agreement.  BUT – in the meantime, I’m NOT fooling with a > litterbox.  Agreed, it’s for my convenienc, not his.  But there’s a > pet in the house and a pet owner in the house.  Sorry, but I get to > lay down the rules. > So, does anyone have any constructive ideas on how to get "The Dude" > to take a dump in the commode?  Like I mentioned before, he’s > perfrctly capable, I believe the boy is just giving me attitude. > I’ve just looked in here for a possible solution to a problem.  I > suppose this has been discussed before so please bear with me. > I have been training my cat to use the toilet as his litterbox.  He > will urinate in it every time like it’s the most natural thing in > the world. > But > he just won’t jump up there to defecate.  If I grab him and put him > up on the seat it’s no problem.  He just won’t do it by himself. > Any ideas? > Thanks, > Darrell

This is a big problem around here. If people don’t agree with what you are doing, your question goes unanswered. I don’t have anything constructive to say. I once had a cat who started urinating in the toilet by himself!  I have no idea what was in his mind. I’ve never had the inclination to toilet train since, but I understand that it’s possible.

Response:

>So, does anyone have any constructive ideas on how to get "The Dude" to take >a dump in the commode?  Like I mentioned before, he’s perfrctly capable, I >believe the boy is just giving me attitude.

Darrell, the "Dude" needs a litterbox.  How would you like it if you were made to go in a litterbox?  Well, that’s the same as you forcing him to go on a human toilet.  What’s the big deal about a litterbox?  Also, cats don’t give attitude.  That is only your perception. Do the cat a favor and give him a litterbox, please. Lauren =^..^= See my cats:   http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043 To Error is Human, To be Purrfect is Feline

Response:

>OK – thank you all for your input.  But let me rephrase the question.  I’m >not looking for suggestions on weather or not this is a good or bad idea. >It is what we’re doing until our living circumstances change.  When that >happens, the cat-door gets installed and my boy will be free to run outside >as he pleases, just like all my previous cats.  I’m sure this may cause >howls of indignation, but as you all stated, cats are predators, need to be >cats and need to run.  I’m in total agreement.  BUT – in the meantime, I’m >NOT fooling with a litterbox.

So… what are you doing when he poops? I mean, he doesn

OT: BAD Hunting Joke

Question:

Jon was excited about his new rifle and wanted to try it out, so he went bear hunting. He spotted a small black bear and shot it. There was then a tap on his shoulder and he turned round to see a larger black bear. The black bear said "You’ve got two choices, I either maul you to death or we have sex." Jon decided to bend over. Even though he felt sore for two weeks, Jon soon recovered and vowed revenge. He headed out on another trip, found the black bear, and shot it. Immediately, there was another tap on his shoulder. This time a big brown bear stood right next to him. The brown bear said, "That was a huge mistake, Jon. You’ve got two choices. Either I maul you to death or we’ll have rough sex." Again, Jon thought it was better to comply. Although he survived, it was several months before Jon finally recovered. Outraged, he headed back to the woods, managed to track down the brown bear and shot it. He felt sweet revenge, but then there was a tap on his shoulder. He turned round to find a gigantic grizzly bear standing there. The grizzly bear said "Admit it, Jon, you don’t come here for the hunting, do you?"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Jon was excited about his new rifle and wanted to try it out, so he >went bear hunting. He spotted a small black bear and shot it. There >was then a tap on his shoulder and he turned round to see a larger >black bear. The black bear said "You’ve got two choices, I either maul >you to death or we have sex." Jon decided to bend over. >Even though he felt sore for two weeks, Jon soon recovered and vowed >revenge. He headed out on another trip, found the black bear, and shot >it. Immediately, there was another tap on his shoulder. This time a >big brown bear stood right next to him. >The brown bear said, "That was a huge mistake, Jon. You’ve got two >choices. Either I maul you to death or we’ll have rough sex." Again, >Jon thought it was better to comply. >Although he survived, it was several months before Jon finally >recovered. Outraged, he headed back to the woods, managed to track >down the brown bear and shot it. He felt sweet revenge, but then there >was a tap on his shoulder. He turned round to find a gigantic grizzly >bear standing there. >The grizzly bear said "Admit it, Jon, you don’t come here for the >hunting, >do you?"

heheheehehehe You’ve done us proud again Steve

Response:

Jon was excited about his new rifle and wanted to try it out, so he went bear hunting. He spotted a small black bear and shot it. There was then a tap on his shoulder and he turned round to see a larger black bear. The black bear said "You’ve got two choices, I either maul you to death or we have sex." Jon decided to bend over. Even though he felt sore for two weeks, Jon soon recovered and vowed revenge. He headed out on another trip, found the black bear, and shot it. Immediately, there was another tap on his shoulder. This time a big brown bear stood right next to him. The brown bear said, "That was a huge mistake, Jon. You’ve got two choices. Either I maul you to death or we’ll have rough sex." Again, Jon thought it was better to comply. Although he survived, it was several months before Jon finally recovered. Outraged, he headed back to the woods, managed to track down the brown bear and shot it. He felt sweet revenge, but then there was a tap on his shoulder. He turned round to find a gigantic grizzly bear standing there. The grizzly bear said "Admit it, Jon, you don’t come here for the hunting, do you?"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Jon was excited about his new rifle and wanted to try it out, so he >went bear hunting. He spotted a small black bear and shot it. There >was then a tap on his shoulder and he turned round to see a larger >black bear. The black bear said "You’ve got two choices, I either maul >you to death or we have sex." Jon decided to bend over. >Even though he felt sore for two weeks, Jon soon recovered and vowed >revenge. He headed out on another trip, found the black bear, and shot >it. Immediately, there was another tap on his shoulder. This time a >big brown bear stood right next to him. >The brown bear said, "That was a huge mistake, Jon. You’ve got two >choices. Either I maul you to death or we’ll have rough sex." Again, >Jon thought it was better to comply. >Although he survived, it was several months before Jon finally >recovered. Outraged, he headed back to the woods, managed to track >down the brown bear and shot it. He felt sweet revenge, but then there >was a tap on his shoulder. He turned round to find a gigantic grizzly >bear standing there. >The grizzly bear said "Admit it, Jon, you don’t come here for the >hunting, >do you?"

heheheehehehe You’ve done us proud again Steve

Response:

Sniper Shootings

Question:

> People like you created that "paranoia"

Nonsense (I don’t use the word BS like you do). Pure, unadulterated nonsense.   Proof is that the paranoia in the Washington DC area is not created by anybody on this news group nor anybody for gun common sense.  It is created by a person who is killing people randomly with, without doubt, an arm you’d justify anybody having. Earl

Response:

Earl quoted me: > People like you created that "paranoia"

and replied: >Nonsense (I don’t use the word BS like >you do). Pure, unadulterated >nonsense.   >Proof is that the paranoia in the >Washington DC area is not created by >anybody on this news group nor anybody >for gun common sense.  It is created >by a person who is killing people >randomly with, without doubt, an arm >you’d

justify anybody having.    Bullshit.  Any "paranoia" is only created by a liberal-dominated "mainstream" media hyping a guy(s) who’s killed far fewer people in over a week than house fires kill <i>daily</i> in America – house fires that go unreported 30 miles away.    These guys (consistently reported by witnesses as two in van or truck) have been hyped out of all context to "everyday" fatality risks in America – particularly when compared to things not almost entirely confined to a 15-mile radius of Washington. <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This part of America must be void of guns >in the hands of the public and is >relatively safe for a sniper on the hunt. >    Anyone blaming the sniper on "gun availability" conveniently forgets that > all but one of his killings have been within 15 miles of Washington, most all > in gun-ban Washington or in very-antigun Maryland – and only one beyond that > radius in gun-laden Virginia. >    Thought for day – this being National Fire Prevention Month: 12 die in home > fires daily in U.S., more than sniper has killed in a week.  Think U.S. home > fire deaths are so ghettoized to one troubled 15-mile radius? > <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather > <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: > official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

That whole area is totally defenseless. The news media is totally mesmerized by this sniper while ignoring the people that were killed and injured in a massive pileup on the freeway in Wisconsin. What the hell, people killed in house fires and cars don’t serve count.

Response:

writes >This part of America must be void of guns in the hands of the public and is >relatively safe for a sniper on the hunt.

What supreme logic!   If it was devoid of guns there would be no sniper. — Gordon

Response:

>What supreme logic!   If it was devoid of >guns there would be no sniper.

   Within the past 24 hours, a bomb killed over 170 people – most from antigun Australia – who were tourists on nearby Bali.  Earlier this week, at least six were killed in a bombing in Finland that some Finn police now think was just a nut kid.      And last 9/11, more Americans were mass-murdered in <I>one hour</i> than in all "mass shootings" combined. <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

> writes >This part of America must be void of guns in the hands of the public and is >relatively safe for a sniper on the hunt. > What supreme logic!   If it was devoid of guns there would be no sniper. > — > Gordon

It’s a bit superior than yours because there is a sniper and the vast majority in that area are defenseless.

Response:

writes > writes > >This part of America must be void of guns in the hands of the public and is > >relatively safe for a sniper on the hunt. > What supreme logic!   If it was devoid of guns there would be no sniper. > — > Gordon >It’s a bit superior than yours because there is a sniper and the vast majority >in that area are defenseless.

Whatever weapons the victims possessed, they are just as dead. Even in a wartime situation, snipers can usually pick off a fair number before they are spotted and dealt with. Errm, aren’t all your policemen armed? — Gordon

Response:

>Whatever weapons the victims >possessed, they are just as dead.

   What about Dr. Harold Shipman’s <I>hundreds</i> of victims he killed in decades of serial murder in gun-control Britain?  Are they "alive" because Shipman didn’t shoot them with a gun?    Right now, a nurse in Holland is on trial for another Shipman-like serial murder spree; 13 known dead.    But they weren’t shot with guns – so they don’t count. >Even in a wartime situation, snipers can >usually pick off a fair number >before they are spotted and dealt with.

   You know nothing about sniping.  Sniper won’t fire more than two rounds from same place – in order to avoid being shot himself.  Standard military sniper doctrine for decades. >Errm, aren’t all your policemen armed?

   And how many of <I>them</i> have the Washington "snipesr" killed??    <a href="http://www.alamanceind.com/nation/nation_1.html">How skilled are Washington "snipers?" <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > writes >> writes >> >This part of America must be void of guns in the hands of the public and is >> >relatively safe for a sniper on the hunt. >> What supreme logic!   If it was devoid of guns there would be no sniper. >> — >> Gordon >It’s a bit superior than yours because there is a sniper and the vast majority >in that area are defenseless. > Whatever weapons the victims possessed, they are just as dead. > Even in a wartime situation, snipers can usually pick off a fair number > before they are spotted and dealt with. > Errm, aren’t all your policemen armed? > — > Gordon

It’s going to take more than a few armed policeman.

Response:

writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> writes > >> writes > >> >This part of America must be void of guns in the hands of the public and >is > >> >relatively safe for a sniper on the hunt. > >> What supreme logic!   If it was devoid of guns there would be no sniper. > >> — > >> Gordon > >It’s a bit superior than yours because there is a sniper and the vast >majority > >in that area are defenseless. > Whatever weapons the victims possessed, they are just as dead. > Even in a wartime situation, snipers can usually pick off a fair number > before they are spotted and dealt with. > Errm, aren’t all your policemen armed? >It’s going to take more than a few armed policeman.

But getting back to the subject of citizens carrying guns; after 9 fatal shootings, nobody seems to have got a decent sighting of this sniper chappie, so how the heck are they supposed to take a bead on him and make an accurate shot? — Gordon

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > writes >> writes >> >> writes >> >> >This part of America must be void of guns in the hands of the public and >is >> >> >relatively safe for a sniper on the hunt. >> >> What supreme logic!   If it was devoid of guns there would be no sniper. >> >> — >> >> Gordon >> >It’s a bit superior than yours because there is a sniper and the vast >majority >> >in that area are defenseless. >> Whatever weapons the victims possessed, they are just as dead. >> Even in a wartime situation, snipers can usually pick off a fair number >> before they are spotted and dealt with. >> Errm, aren’t all your policemen armed? >It’s going to take more than a few armed policeman. > But getting back to the subject of citizens carrying guns; after 9 fatal > shootings, nobody seems to have got a decent sighting of this sniper > chappie, so how the heck are they supposed to take a bead on him and > make an accurate shot? > — > Gordon

England is in the same predicament as the DC area, unarmed citizens. How would you get him?

Response:

writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> writes > >> writes > >> >> writes > >> >> >This part of America must be void of guns in the hands of the public >and > >is > >> >> >relatively safe for a sniper on the hunt. > >> >> What supreme logic!   If it was devoid of guns there would be no sniper. > >> >> — > >> >> Gordon > >> >It’s a bit superior than yours because there is a sniper and the vast > >majority > >> >in that area are defenseless. > >> Whatever weapons the victims possessed, they are just as dead. > >> Even in a wartime situation, snipers can usually pick off a fair number > >> before they are spotted and dealt with. > >> Errm, aren’t all your policemen armed? > >It’s going to take more than a few armed policeman. > But getting back to the subject of citizens carrying guns; after 9 fatal > shootings, nobody seems to have got a decent sighting of this sniper > chappie, so how the heck are they supposed to take a bead on him and > make an accurate shot? > — > Gordon >England is in the same predicament as the DC area, unarmed citizens. How would >you >get him?

We don’t have him, or rather, we don’t have as many of him as you do. — Gordon

Response:

>This part of America must be void of guns >in the hands of the public and is >relatively safe for a sniper on the hunt.

   Anyone blaming the sniper on "gun availability" conveniently forgets that all but one of his killings have been within 15 miles of Washington, most all in gun-ban Washington or in very-antigun Maryland – and only one beyond that radius in gun-laden Virginia.    Thought for day – this being National Fire Prevention Month: 12 die in home fires daily in U.S., more than sniper has killed in a week.  Think U.S. home fire deaths are so ghettoized to one troubled 15-mile radius? <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jim quoted me: >>  If guns were treated legally like cars, >>every 16-year-old would have one. > and replied: >Huh? >    Know any 16-year-old American who <I>isn’t</I> a driver? >    Driving is so universal among all over 16 in America that mass transit has > totally failed to get any significant adult ridership outside of NYC and a few > "college towns" since WWII.  Blue Nation or Red Nation, everywhere but NYC and > "college towns," anyone over 16 seems to drive – even if he’s poor, illiterate, > had many tickets. >>If guns were treated like cars, every >>habitual criminal would have them, >>even ones who habitually misused guns >>- just like the neighbor’s son who > had >>three DUIs by age 21. >Nonsense.  Unliscenced drivers are >treated very harshly in most places.

They sure are. They one that ran a stop sign and clobbered my wife is being treated very harshly. No insurance, won’t pay, skipped town and the police said "sorry about that".. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Bull.  Illegal aliens so routinely drive unlicensed that 1/5 of Kalifornia > drivers now do. >>   Guns aren’t treated like cars for the >>best of reasons – one big one > being >>that car owners don’t distrust registering >>them as a slippery slope to >>confiscation also long demanded by >>anticar activists! >The paranoia of the gun nuts shines thru >every time. >    People like you created that "paranoia" – with your endless talk of > confiscating guns.  HCI did more to create such "paranoia" than the NRA could > have dreamed of. >    Thought for the day – from National Fire Prevention Month: 12 people die in > U.S. <i>daily</i> in home fires.  That’s four more than the D.C. sniper has > total in over a week. > <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather > <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: > official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

Jim quoted me: >If guns were treated like cars, every >>habitual criminal would have >them, even ones who habitually >>misused guns – just like the neighbor’s >son who had three DUIs by age 21.

quoted Jim: >>Nonsense.  Unliscenced drivers are >>>treated very harshly in most places.

and replied (sarcastically): >They sure are. They one that ran a stop >sign and clobbered my wife is being >treated very harshly. No insurance, won’t >pay, skipped town and the police >said "sorry about that"..

   You must have been hit by the uninsured driver who hit my mother and me about five years ago – then fled his second at-fault wreck in two days.  State trooper basically said the hell with it. <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

>  If guns were treated legally like cars, every 16-year-old would have one.

Huh? >If guns were treated like cars, every habitual criminal would have them, even >ones who habitually misused guns – just like the neighbor’s son who had three >DUIs by age 21.

Nonsense.  Unliscenced drivers are treated very harshly in most places. >   Guns aren’t treated like cars for the best of reasons – one big one being >that car owners don’t distrust registering them as a slippery slope to >confiscation also long demanded by anticar activists!

The paranoia of the gun nuts shines thru every time.

Response:

Jim quoted me: >  If guns were treated legally like cars, >>every 16-year-old would have one.

and replied: >Huh?

   Know any 16-year-old American who <I>isn’t</I> a driver?    Driving is so universal among all over 16 in America that mass transit has totally failed to get any significant adult ridership outside of NYC and a few "college towns" since WWII.  Blue Nation or Red Nation, everywhere but NYC and "college towns," anyone over 16 seems to drive – even if he’s poor, illiterate, had many tickets. >If guns were treated like cars, every >>habitual criminal would have them, >even ones who habitually misused guns >>- just like the neighbor’s son who had >three DUIs by age 21. >Nonsense.  Unliscenced drivers are >treated very harshly in most places.

   Bull.  Illegal aliens so routinely drive unlicensed that 1/5 of Kalifornia drivers now do. >   Guns aren’t treated like cars for the >>best of reasons – one big one being >that car owners don’t distrust registering >>them as a slippery slope to >confiscation also long demanded by >>anticar activists! >The paranoia of the gun nuts shines thru >every time.

   People like you created that "paranoia" – with your endless talk of confiscating guns.  HCI did more to create such "paranoia" than the NRA could have dreamed of.    Thought for the day – from National Fire Prevention Month: 12 people die in U.S. <i>daily</i> in home fires.  That’s four more than the D.C. sniper has total in over a week. <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

> > All guns SHOULD be registered and fingerprinted.  And all gun owners should > be liscensed. > Just like we do with cars. > There was apparently an additional type of machine used in these crimes > – a while van or truck of some kind. While we’re at it, we better > register all the vehicles and license all the drivers, too… > John Cowart

This part of America must be void of guns in the hands of the public and is relatively safe for a sniper on the hunt.

Response:

John quoted me: >    More Brady lies.  Far more than one >>model .223 rifle is a bolt-action > varmint rifle.

and replied: >Actually, I don’t think the police have >stated that it was a bolt action.

   Nor have they stated that it was from an "assault rifle" – just that either it or a hunting rifle was possible. >The police have probably succeeded in >getting a >count of the number of lands and grooves >and the twist rate from bullet >fragments, and narrowed it down to 4 >models from there.

   I doubt that.  Several bullets have been too mangled to compare.  In any case, .223 ammo at that range disintegrates into about 24 pieces on entering a body – and each is tiny. >At least one bolt action (Winchester) has >the same 1-in-9 twist that is commonly >found in AR-15s.

   I’d guess that almost all noncustom .223 rifles have that rate of twist – as they fire similar bullet weights at similar muzzle velocity. <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

>All guns SHOULD be registered and >fingerprinted.  And all gun owners should >be liscensed. >Just like we do with cars.

   If guns were treated legally like cars, every 16-year-old would have one. If guns were treated like cars, every habitual criminal would have them, even ones who habitually misused guns – just like the neighbor’s son who had three DUIs by age 21.  Want that?    Guns aren’t treated like cars for the best of reasons – one big one being that car owners don’t distrust registering them as a slippery slope to confiscation also long demanded by anticar activists! <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

>>These limitations speak to a need for >a national ballistics fingerprinting law for >all firearms. >   Just a backdoor argument for gun registration.

All guns SHOULD be registered and fingerprinted.  And all gun owners should be liscensed. Just like we do with cars.

Response:

>    More Brady lies.  Far more than one model .223 rifle is a bolt-action > varmint rifle.

Actually, I don’t think the police have stated that it was a bolt action. There are certainly any number of AR-15 variations that are accurate enough to be the weapon in this case, and the flat-top models can be easily scoped. The police have probably succeeded in getting a count of the number of lands and grooves and the twist rate from bullet fragments, and narrowed it down to 4 models from there. At least one bolt action (Winchester) has the same 1-in-9 twist that is commonly found in AR-15s. I have no data for the number of lands and grooves. John Cowart

Response:

> All guns SHOULD be registered and fingerprinted.  And all gun owners should > be liscensed. > Just like we do with cars.

There was apparently an additional type of machine used in these crimes – a while van or truck of some kind. While we’re at it, we better register all the vehicles and license all the drivers, too… John Cowart

Response:

Issue: 77 – Wednesday, October 09, 2002 Statement by Sarah Brady on the Sniper Shootings Today, Sarah Brady, Chair of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence united with the Million Mom March, issued the following statement about the sniper shootings in suburban Maryland and the greater Washington, D.C. area: "On behalf of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence united with the Million Mom March, I want to express our deepest sympathies to the families of the victims of these senseless shootings. Gun violence is always devastating to a community, but it is even more horrifying when such violence strikes for no conceivable reason other than to terrorize. "As police try to track down and stop this killer, we do know this: sensible gun laws can help law enforcement solve crimes as well as prevent gun violence.  The unique markings, called the ‘ballistic fingerprint,’ that every gun leaves on a fired bullet or shell casing have always been helpful in investigating shootings.  We have already seen the usefulness of ballistic tests in definitively linking six of the eight shootings to the same firearm. "We have also seen the limitations to ballistic fingerprinting laws in their current form.  Only two states — Maryland and New York — require a record be kept of every new gun’s ballistic fingerprint.  Both states’ laws are relatively new and apply only to handguns, not all long guns, which the weapon in this case almost surely is.  These limitations speak to a need for a national ballistics fingerprinting law for all firearms.  Doesn’t it make sense for us to give law enforcement the tools they need in order to solve such crimes? "Furthermore, according to police, the shooter could be using one of four possible firearms to carry out this shooting spree.  Three of the four are assault rifles.  It’s important to remember that the federal assault weapons ban <http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/gunlaws/awb.asp>  expires in September 2004.  We do not want to put more military-style weapons capable of such devastation and worse back on our streets. "The National Rifle Association, which claims to be on the side of law enforcement, fought the assault weapons ban and it fights ballistic fingerprinting laws.  Instead of supporting measures that would help police solve crimes and prevent gun violence, it promotes the dangerous notion that ‘an armed society is a polite society.’  Sadly, far too many Americans every year pay the consequences of the NRA’s ‘polite society’ with their lives."

Response:

Jim quoted Sarah Brady: > Gun violence is always >devastating to a community, but it is even >more horrifying when such >violence strikes for no conceivable reason >other than to terrorize.

   What about "gun violence" spree killings now makes them any more "devastating" than were the Tylenol poisonings that killed almost exactly the same number of random victims in the Chicago area 20 years ago?    What about "gun violence" spree killings now makes them any more "devastating" than the death of 300 times as many in "boxcutter violence" (or was that "airplane violence") in NYC last 9/1?    Sarah Brady doesn’t give a damn about "violence" – just about guns! >These limitations speak to a need for >a national ballistics fingerprinting law for >all firearms.

   Just a backdoor argument for gun registration.    And – after we saw registration be just a slippery slope to confiscation in Britain, Canada, and Australia – do you think we’d comply with the estimated 250 million guns we already have? >"Furthermore, according to police, the >shooter could be using one of four >possible firearms to carry out this >shooting spree.  Three of the four are >assault rifles.

   More Brady lies.  Far more than one model .223 rifle is a bolt-action varmint rifle. <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, nationwide weather <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

bullfight in spain

Question:

> Hi all , >     Is it best to watch bullfight in madrid (I mean the atmosphere) ? Is > there any websites or information about the schedule (like when it will take > place in a week. ) . Is there any in barcelona ?

It’s been mentioned that there are bullfights in BCN and usually only on Sunday. Schedules might be found through those links listed. As someone said, in BCN the bullfights are rarely patronized by locals so this tells me it simply for tourist attraction. hasn’t listed a single 2002 bullfight schedule other than that for the month-long festival of San Isidro last spring! This makes me crazy! How hard can it be to list the next Sunday’s 3 bullfighters? Madrid brings Spain’s (and Portugal’s/France’s) most famous bullfighters and has the country’s most largest bullring but it’s #2 in the world to the monstrosity in Mexico City. La Maestranza, the bullring in Sevilla, is arguably the most beautiful and historical. Have a GREAT time throughout Spain! Saludos, MadridMan — Visit MadridMan’s Yankee Home Page & http://www.MadridMan.com

Response:

wow!! That was dumb.

Response:

>I think that, if one is to visit Spain, it’s important to go to at >least one bullfight to learn something of that very important aspect >of Spanish culture. You might not like it, but it is their culture >and, if you weren’t interested in it, you wouldn’t be there, right?

Excuse the pun but:- Bull. I have every respect for the tradition and culture behind genuine corridas (I’m sure you know that there’s more to a corrida than just the bull fight but I’ll mention it for others.) but I don’t want any part of it and I’m not interested in it.  Fox hunting is part of our culture but I wouldn’t expect any visitors to join the first hunt that rode past. I understand your dislike of those who blindly attack other cultures without attempting to understand them.  Constant referrals to "sport" show how little it is understood.  The culture can be understood without a visit to the Plaza.  Fully understanding it takes years anyway. I have to take exception to your comments because of my deep affection for Spanish culture.  That affection and the knowledge it has brought allow me to tolerate the Taurina culture but I’ll never accept it and (in common with many Spaniards, I’ll continue to argue against it.) Tradition is no excuse for cruelty.  Bear baiting was a tradition in this part of England until the early 20th century.  Was it wrong to outlaw it? Spain has outlawed many of it’s cruel traditions, tossing goats off towers, grown men hanging from a goose’s neck etc.  They obviously don’t believe that tradition, in itself is enough. My main two gripes are these: Non-locals who run at the encieros in Pamplona.  They’ve probably never read Hemingway, not that that would excuse it.  They aren’t Basque so there’s no tradition, only cruelty.   Constant digs at Spain over bull fighting.  It’s just as popular in Portugal and Southern France.  More so in the latter IME. — Cheers, Chris

Response:

>Excuse the pun but:- Bull.

<snip the rest> The OP poster asked for cities and schedules.  I don’t remember him asking for personal views on whether he should go to a bullfight or not  

Response:

>>Excuse the pun but:- Bull. ><snip the rest> >The OP poster asked for cities and schedules.  I don’t remember him asking for >personal views on whether he should go to a bullfight or not  

I wasn’t giving him them. — Cheers, Chris

Response:

> Hi all , >     Is it best to watch bullfight in madrid (I mean the atmosphere) ? Is > there any websites or information about the schedule (like when it will take > place in a week. ) . Is there any in barcelona ?

If you do go, try going to a popular, big fight with famous (well, in Spain anyway) fighters. There’s more chance of a less gruesome display because they _should_ be better at their job. You probably wouldn’t want to see some 2-bit amateur on his first outing…… The festival they have in Sevilla is a good bet – as are many of the other big towns in Andalucia. Sevilla bullring is a superb place to visit even without a fight on. Website is: http://www.realmaestranza.com – there are loads of fights on around Easter (Semana Santa), weekly until June, and a few more in September. hwyl! geraint.

Response:

> go to atleast one bullfight to learn something of that very important > aspect of Spanish culture . . . if you weren’t interested in it, you > wouldn’t be there, right? > Excuse the pun but:- Bull.

I do not disagree with what you said but I shall not retract what I said. ICONO CLAST: A San Franciscan who’s visited 49 of 50 US states http://geocities.com/dancefest/            IClast at SFbay Net

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Excuse the pun but:- Bull. > I have every respect for the tradition and culture behind genuine > corridas (I’m sure you know that there’s more to a corrida than just > the bull fight but I’ll mention it for others.) but I don’t want any > part of it and I’m not interested in it.  Fox hunting is part of our > culture but I wouldn’t expect any visitors to join the first hunt that > rode past. > I understand your dislike of those who blindly attack other cultures > without attempting to understand them.  Constant referrals to "sport" > show how little it is understood.  The culture can be understood > without a visit to the Plaza.  Fully understanding it takes years > anyway. > I have to take exception to your comments because of my deep affection > for Spanish culture.  That affection and the knowledge it has brought > allow me to tolerate the Taurina culture but I’ll never accept it and > (in common with many Spaniards, I’ll continue to argue against it.) > Tradition is no excuse for cruelty.  Bear baiting was a tradition in > this part of England until the early 20th century.  Was it wrong to > outlaw it? > Spain has outlawed many of it’s cruel traditions, tossing goats off > towers, grown men hanging from a goose’s neck etc.  They obviously > don’t believe that tradition, in itself is enough. > My main two gripes are these: > Non-locals who run at the encieros in Pamplona.  They’ve probably > never read Hemingway, not that that would excuse it.  They aren’t > Basque so there’s no tradition, only cruelty. > Constant digs at Spain over bull fighting.  It’s just as popular in > Portugal and Southern France.  More so in the latter IME.

I’m pro bullfighting, but a very good, reasoned response with which I wholly agree. Incidentally, tourists to the UK would probably love to see a hunt, but I suspect bullfighting is rather more accessible! Surreyman

Response:

Is bullfighting only available on Sunday or Saturday ? Since I will be in madrid on Mon and I can’t really change that one day earlier.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Is it best to watch bullfight in madrid (I mean the atmosphere) ? Is >there any websites or information about the schedule (like when it will take >place in a week. ) . Is there any in barcelona ? >Thanks. >Perseus > If you want to see a bullfight, go in Madrid. > Barcelona is not the best place to see one…to say the least, the city does > not embrace the sport > If you can’t see one in Madrid, catch one in Andalucia.  Portugal is also quite > good (the bull lives). > These sites may be of help: > www.las-ventas.com >  (look at their "www sites" links section) > www.toros.com

Response:

> NO BULLFIGHTINGS!!!!! > I’m with you.  What is the fascination here, to what human emotion > does this ?sport? provide satisfaction?   I can’t even stand rodeos. > After seeing the cowboys get hurt I had to scratch my head (didn’t > get splinters either) in disbelief.  Come to think, football comes into > this category as well.

Then you obviously do not have the remotest idea of what bullfighting is all about. Surreyman

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There’s bullfighting all over Spain. The best venue is probably at la > F

scent-less/nonscented shampoo & soap?

Question:

I’m gonna be spending the summer up in the woods of NH… But every time I go up there, the bugs just love the smell of the purfumes in normal shampoos and soap.  Any suggestions?  Is there non-scented soap and/or shampoo out there, and if so, where can I get my hands on some?

Response:

You may want to check your local organic store, they may have something. Otherwise, you could check the baby section of your local supermarket.  Baby products are generally softer and some may be scent free.  Let us know what you find out, I’d be interested in the same thing. Fabien Tiburce

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m gonna be spending the summer up in the woods of NH… But every > time I go up there, the bugs just love the smell of the purfumes in > normal shampoos and soap.  Any suggestions?  Is there non-scented soap > and/or shampoo out there, and if so, where can I get my hands on some?

Response:

>I’m gonna be spending the summer up in the woods of NH… But every >time I go up there, the bugs just love the smell of the purfumes in >normal shampoos and soap.  Any suggestions?  Is there non-scented soap >and/or shampoo out there, and if so, where can I get my hands on some?

Neutrogena makes some unscented soaps and lotions, but I don’t know about shampoo.  Can you post if you find unscented shampoo somewhere. I usually use that Castille soap stuff in the almond scent and never noticed bugs being really attracted to my hair – maybe they have that in unscented. -kim

Response:

>I’m gonna be spending the summer up in the woods of NH… But every >time I go up there, the bugs just love the smell of the purfumes in >normal shampoos and soap.  Any suggestions?  Is there non-scented soap >and/or shampoo out there, and if so, where can I get my hands on some?

I generally haven’t had problems with Dr. Bronner’s peppermint. For truly scent-free soaps, go to a hunting store. Serious hunters, especially bowhunters, use scent-free soaps so they don’t smell un-natural to the sminals they are stlaking. Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear) at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Response:

Dirty old ducks

Question:

get an electric fence

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->     I am guessing that the neighbor ducks are ‘clippd’ and flightless. If so – > what material do ducks hesitate to walk upon ? Obviously, no one here is > suggesting that harming the little darlings is a reasonable action. However – > animals with brains the size of stunted hazelnuts often require physical > reinforcement of their lessons as their reasoning ability tends to be on the low > scale. >     Someone mentioned Labradors . Their reasoning ability is questionable – but > the ‘rent-a-lab’  program might be just the thing for your home. Have you a > kindly associate who might lend you a lab which you can keep strategically > confined for a few days near the pond approach ?  I hate to tether dogs – but we > are talking about ducks.  Surely mama duck has taught the offspring about the > angers of a 130 lb labrador . Surely. >     Now, another more permanent answer should your neighbor not respond to the > dog-duck-deterrent method – which is what we hope that HE will restrain his pets > in the face of duck-dog – is what can ducks not bear to walk upon or through. Do > they mind sharp shells like like oyster shards ? How about broken walnut husks. > Their feet are tough – but do they navigate a wire four inches off the ground > very well ? >     I’d be tempted to resort to the universal dog-b-gone, cat-b-gone, pig-b-gone > (happened and I do not live in a rural area ..) trick of a small electric fence > wire on plastic stakes some 3-4" above the ground. If landscaping is heavy, weave > it around for concealment. >     If you feathered neighbors are flight enabled, well.  Might try a > biodegradable dish soap in the pond depending upon fishy concerns. Kio – never. > I’m a minow man, myself. I hate to offer candy bars to the local raccoons. >     Ever see a duck do laps around the bottom ? Add a quarter cup of > yellow-bottle gold and you will.  Look quick becasue they don’t last long. Make > sure it is one of those organic-bio brands. The stuff in ‘insert barnd here’ > wouldn’t be too good – phosphates. Used to have lots of phosphates. I’m not sure > anymore. It’s been a while since I treated a mass-spec machine as a toy. >     I’d use a rake to fish ‘em out, too. Just me. > Called my son….He has a bow & arrow for hunting!! Said he would gladly help > me (said he needed the practice). > That really would be a mean thing to do, but I’m at my wits end!!! > Will let you know what and when If get > this problem solved. > Joanne

Response:

You might try a large plastic snake or a plastic owl.  They work (for a while) on pigeons.  Any chance of getting a pet coon?  They love ducks.  So do minks, weasles, ferrets, and hawks.  You could build an owl nest box and put it by your pond. You might also try the little trick people use on herons: electrified pet fence around the pond. Its just a single wire with harmless 12 volt current running through it.  Available at your local hardware store.  You could probably hide the wire pretty well in the marginals around your pond. Also, ducks are scared of shotguns.  If it were me, I’d have already had me some duck gumbo, yeah chere.  Bonne chance. Ed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Called my son….He has a bow & arrow for hunting!! Said he would gladly help > me (said he needed the practice). > That really would be a mean thing to do, but I’m at my wits end!!! > Will let you know what and when If get > this problem solved. > Joanne

Response:

> buy a duck at your local grocery.  cook it.  take it over to your > neighbor. dont say a word, just hand it to them.  Ingrid

Is that all I have to do to get my neighbors to cook for me No, wait, I’m the one with the pond -stacy — You’ll see it’s all a show. Keep ‘em laughing as you go. Just remember that the last laugh is on you.         – Monty Python _The Life Of Brian_ Millions Consulting Limited

Response:

~Can you borrow a friend’s labrador for a week? ~Tell the neighbor you are taking gourmet cooking and the first recipe is peking duck? ~Find a big old snapping turtle and give him a home. Seriously, there ought to be some kind of regulation in your town or county about nuisance animals. Start writing down every incident and investigate what your rights are as a property owner, then report him ( he doesn’t sound like he is very serious about keeping his ducks out of your pond). good luck! k30a how to cure green water http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/writing.html herons eating your fish? fancy a turtle? need to bag a bullfrog? http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/garden.html

Response:

buy a duck at your local grocery.  cook it.  take it over to your neighbor. dont say a word, just hand it to them.  Ingrid >Please help me …My neighbor has ducks and they are really messing up my yard >and pond. I’ve ask him several times to keep his ducks out of my yard and pond. >He always says "I’ll work on it" but had to put a net over my pond and it looks >terrible!! can’t enjoy my pond …what can I do…..Joanne

List manager- Puregold http://puregold.aquaria.net/ http://drsolo.net Solve the problem, dont waste energy looking for who’s to blame Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the work, endorsements and recommendations I make.  And my husband has the bills to prove it!  

Response:

Called my son….He has a bow & arrow for hunting!! Said he would gladly help me (said he needed the practice). That really would be a mean thing to do, but I’m at my wits end!!! Will let you know what and when If get this problem solved. Joanne

Response:

    I am guessing that the neighbor ducks are ‘clippd’ and flightless. If so – what material do ducks hesitate to walk upon ? Obviously, no one here is suggesting that harming the little darlings is a reasonable action. However – animals with brains the size of stunted hazelnuts often require physical reinforcement of their lessons as their reasoning ability tends to be on the low scale.     Someone mentioned Labradors . Their reasoning ability is questionable – but the ‘rent-a-lab’  program might be just the thing for your home. Have you a kindly associate who might lend you a lab which you can keep strategically confined for a few days near the pond approach ?  I hate to tether dogs – but we are talking about ducks.  Surely mama duck has taught the offspring about the angers of a 130 lb labrador . Surely.     Now, another more permanent answer should your neighbor not respond to the dog-duck-deterrent method – which is what we hope that HE will restrain his pets in the face of duck-dog – is what can ducks not bear to walk upon or through. Do they mind sharp shells like like oyster shards ? How about broken walnut husks. Their feet are tough – but do they navigate a wire four inches off the ground very well ?     I’d be tempted to resort to the universal dog-b-gone, cat-b-gone, pig-b-gone (happened and I do not live in a rural area ..) trick of a small electric fence wire on plastic stakes some 3-4" above the ground. If landscaping is heavy, weave it around for concealment.     If you feathered neighbors are flight enabled, well.  Might try a biodegradable dish soap in the pond depending upon fishy concerns. Kio – never. I’m a minow man, myself. I hate to offer candy bars to the local raccoons.     Ever see a duck do laps around the bottom ? Add a quarter cup of yellow-bottle gold and you will.  Look quick becasue they don’t last long.  Make sure it is one of those organic-bio brands. The stuff in ‘insert barnd here’ wouldn’t be too good – phosphates. Used to have lots of phosphates. I’m not sure anymore. It’s been a while since I treated a mass-spec machine as a toy.     I’d use a rake to fish ‘em out, too. Just me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Called my son….He has a bow & arrow for hunting!! Said he would gladly help > me (said he needed the practice). > That really would be a mean thing to do, but I’m at my wits end!!! > Will let you know what and when If get > this problem solved. > Joanne

Response:

Please help me …My neighbor has ducks and they are really messing up my yard and pond. I’ve ask him several times to keep his ducks out of my yard and pond. He always says "I’ll work on it" but had to put a net over my pond and it looks terrible!! can’t enjoy my pond …what can I do…..Joanne

Response:

get an electric fence

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->     I am guessing that the neighbor ducks are ‘clippd’ and flightless. If so – > what material do ducks hesitate to walk upon ? Obviously, no one here is > suggesting that harming the little darlings is a reasonable action. However – > animals with brains the size of stunted hazelnuts often require physical > reinforcement of their lessons as their reasoning ability tends to be on the low > scale. >     Someone mentioned Labradors . Their reasoning ability is questionable – but > the ‘rent-a-lab’  program might be just the thing for your home. Have you a > kindly associate who might lend you a lab which you can keep strategically > confined for a few days near the pond approach ?  I hate to tether dogs – but we > are talking about ducks.  Surely mama duck has taught the offspring about the > angers of a 130 lb labrador . Surely. >     Now, another more permanent answer should your neighbor not respond to the > dog-duck-deterrent method – which is what we hope that HE will restrain his pets > in the face of duck-dog – is what can ducks not bear to walk upon or through. Do > they mind sharp shells like like oyster shards ? How about broken walnut husks. > Their feet are tough – but do they navigate a wire four inches off the ground > very well ? >     I’d be tempted to resort to the universal dog-b-gone, cat-b-gone, pig-b-gone > (happened and I do not live in a rural area ..) trick of a small electric fence > wire on plastic stakes some 3-4" above the ground. If landscaping is heavy, weave > it around for concealment. >     If you feathered neighbors are flight enabled, well.  Might try a > biodegradable dish soap in the pond depending upon fishy concerns. Kio – never. > I’m a minow man, myself. I hate to offer candy bars to the local raccoons. >     Ever see a duck do laps around the bottom ? Add a quarter cup of > yellow-bottle gold and you will.  Look quick becasue they don’t last long. Make > sure it is one of those organic-bio brands. The stuff in ‘insert barnd here’ > wouldn’t be too good – phosphates. Used to have lots of phosphates. I’m not sure > anymore. It’s been a while since I treated a mass-spec machine as a toy. >     I’d use a rake to fish ‘em out, too. Just me. > Called my son….He has a bow & arrow for hunting!! Said he would gladly help > me (said he needed the practice). > That really would be a mean thing to do, but I’m at my wits end!!! > Will let you know what and when If get > this problem solved. > Joanne

Response:

You might try a large plastic snake or a plastic owl.  They work (for a while) on pigeons.  Any chance of getting a pet coon?  They love ducks.  So do minks, weasles, ferrets, and hawks.  You could build an owl nest box and put it by your pond. You might also try the little trick people use on herons: electrified pet fence around the pond. Its just a single wire with harmless 12 volt current running through it.  Available at your local hardware store.  You could probably hide the wire pretty well in the marginals around your pond. Also, ducks are scared of shotguns.  If it were me, I’d have already had me some duck gumbo, yeah chere.  Bonne chance. Ed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Called my son….He has a bow & arrow for hunting!! Said he would gladly help > me (said he needed the practice). > That really would be a mean thing to do, but I’m at my wits end!!! > Will let you know what and when If get > this problem solved. > Joanne

Response:

> buy a duck at your local grocery.  cook it.  take it over to your > neighbor. dont say a word, just hand it to them.  Ingrid

Is that all I have to do to get my neighbors to cook for me No, wait, I’m the one with the pond -stacy — You’ll see it’s all a show. Keep ‘em laughing as you go. Just remember that the last laugh is on you.         – Monty Python _The Life Of Brian_ Millions Consulting Limited

Response:

~Can you borrow a friend’s labrador for a week? ~Tell the neighbor you are taking gourmet cooking and the first recipe is peking duck? ~Find a big old snapping turtle and give him a home. Seriously, there ought to be some kind of regulation in your town or county about nuisance animals. Start writing down every incident and investigate what your rights are as a property owner, then report him ( he doesn’t sound like he is very serious about keeping his ducks out of your pond). good luck! k30a how to cure green water http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/writing.html herons eating your fish? fancy a turtle? need to bag a bullfrog? http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/garden.html

Response:

buy a duck at your local grocery.  cook it.  take it over to your neighbor. dont say a word, just hand it to them.  Ingrid >Please help me …My neighbor has ducks and they are really messing up my yard >and pond. I’ve ask him several times to keep his ducks out of my yard and pond. >He always says "I’ll work on it" but had to put a net over my pond and it looks >terrible!! can’t enjoy my pond …what can I do…..Joanne

List manager- Puregold http://puregold.aquaria.net/ http://drsolo.net Solve the problem, dont waste energy looking for who’s to blame Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the work, endorsements and recommendations I make.  And my husband has the bills to prove it!  

Response:

Called my son….He has a bow & arrow for hunting!! Said he would gladly help me (said he needed the practice). That really would be a mean thing to do, but I’m at my wits end!!! Will let you know what and when If get this problem solved. Joanne

Response:

    I am guessing that the neighbor ducks are ‘clippd’ and flightless. If so – what material do ducks hesitate to walk upon ? Obviously, no one here is suggesting that harming the little darlings is a reasonable action. However – animals with brains the size of stunted hazelnuts often require physical reinforcement of their lessons as their reasoning ability tends to be on the low scale.     Someone mentioned Labradors . Their reasoning ability is questionable – but the ‘rent-a-lab’  program might be just the thing for your home. Have you a kindly associate who might lend you a lab which you can keep strategically confined for a few days near the pond approach ?  I hate to tether dogs – but we are talking about ducks.  Surely mama duck has taught the offspring about the angers of a 130 lb labrador . Surely.     Now, another more permanent answer should your neighbor not respond to the dog-duck-deterrent method – which is what we hope that HE will restrain his pets in the face of duck-dog – is what can ducks not bear to walk upon or through. Do they mind sharp shells like like oyster shards ? How about broken walnut husks. Their feet are tough – but do they navigate a wire four inches off the ground very well ?     I’d be tempted to resort to the universal dog-b-gone, cat-b-gone, pig-b-gone (happened and I do not live in a rural area ..) trick of a small electric fence wire on plastic stakes some 3-4" above the ground. If landscaping is heavy, weave it around for concealment.     If you feathered neighbors are flight enabled, well.  Might try a biodegradable dish soap in the pond depending upon fishy concerns. Kio – never. I’m a minow man, myself. I hate to offer candy bars to the local raccoons.     Ever see a duck do laps around the bottom ? Add a quarter cup of yellow-bottle gold and you will.  Look quick becasue they don’t last long.  Make sure it is one of those organic-bio brands. The stuff in ‘insert barnd here’ wouldn’t be too good – phosphates. Used to have lots of phosphates. I’m not sure anymore. It’s been a while since I treated a mass-spec machine as a toy.     I’d use a rake to fish ‘em out, too. Just me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Called my son….He has a bow & arrow for hunting!! Said he would gladly help > me (said he needed the practice). > That really would be a mean thing to do, but I’m at my wits end!!! > Will let you know what and when If get > this problem solved. > Joanne

Response:

Please help me …My neighbor has ducks and they are really messing up my yard and pond. I’ve ask him several times to keep his ducks out of my yard and pond. He always says "I’ll work on it" but had to put a net over my pond and it looks terrible!! can’t enjoy my pond …what can I do…..Joanne

Response:

3D Class Ratings

Question:

I plan to get into 3D with a few buddies. It will be new to us and we would like to understand the class ratings: beginner, release, finger, fixed sight, adjustable sight, unlimited, etc. I tried google to search for info but go nowhere. Is there a site that explains the classes and the rules for each category??? are there sites that give tips for beginner 3D archers ????? Do all 3D shoots follow the same rules / classes or are they up to the club or organization holding the event ???? thanks in advance for the newsgroup info

Response:

International bowhunters organization or known as the IBO. You can look them up on the web and they have all the rules and catagories, with information.

Response:

> Do all 3D shoots follow the same rules / classes or are they up to the

club or organization holding the event ???? Most  follow IBO, but not always. Many shoots are just simply that; shoots. There is no formal competition except with yourself. Don’t get too hung up on rules right now. Just go and have fun and you will see it is very casual. You don’t even have to keep score if you don’t want to. Advice for beginners? Have fun, don’t worry about competition until your familiar with how things work and have fun. Its a blast. Most shoots start first thing in the morning and will start shooters until early afternoon. Alot of times the course will loop back to the clubhouse area so you will get a halfway break. It’s similar to golf. If your holding up a smaller party, you may want to let them "shoot through". Similarly, you don’t want to approach the stakes of the next target if another party is shooting. Common courtesy says that you keep quiet while someone shoots. I guess glassing the target is allowed only once before your at the stakes or while at the stakes? Something silly like that. I don’t use binoculars for 3D shooting mostly because I use 3D shoots as hunting practice. I would never use binocs in the field so why use them to cheat at a 3D? Things to bring: Sun screen, bug dope, soap or furniture polish for your arrows, a water bottle is nice as is a good arrow puller. A cooler with some beverages and maybe lunch too. I only carry the water bottle and a towel on course. A holster on your belt that helps support your bow, or allows your bow to hang at your side can save your arms. Bows get real heavy when you carry them all day. Thats about it. Just go and have fun. When you register, just tell the guys its your first time, and they’ll explain everything. (takes about 30 seconds) Oh yeah, personal advice: Don’t wear camoflage to a 3D shoot….just don’t do it. You may have to look for an arrow in the woods…..its just silly to be wearing camo to a 3D shoot. You will see alot of people doing just that though. Not that its a dangerous sport, but a little common sense would be nice. Here’s a VERY handy link for finding shoots in your state: http://www.bowsite.org/bowsite/3dshoots/main.cfm IBO websight: http://www.ibo.net/ Here are the IBO’s formal rules. Each club usually has their own though or loosely follow these. http://www.ibo.net/rules/ I listed the class definitions below: I.B.O. CLASSES DEFINED Hunter Class (HC) A compound, recurve, or longbow with or without sights, may be shot with release aid, finger tab, glove or bare fingers. If a sight is used it will have no more than four (4) fixed or crosshair style pins. Circle pins allowed if all circles are the same size. Arrows must have screw in style points and a minimum of 4 inch vanes or feathers. Only one (1) single stabilizer being less than twelve (12) inches in length from the nearest point of attachment is allowed. A maximum of eighty (80) pounds of peak weight is allowed and will be shot from the yellow stake with a maximum of 35 yards. * – ** If a shooter wins twice while competing in the Hunter Class at a national or world level tournament during one IBO shoot calendar year, that shooter must advance to a higher competitive level the following IBO shoot calendar year. Once this shooter advances to the higher competitive level, he/she must remain at that level for an entire IBO shoot calendar year. Female Hunter Class (FHC) A compound, recurve, or longbow with or without sights, may be shot with release, finger tab glove, or bare fingers. If a sight is used it will have no more than four (4) fixed or crosshair style pins. Circle pins allowed if all circles are the same size. Arrows must have screw in style points and a minimum of 4 inch vanes or feathers. Only one (1) single stabilizer being less than twelve (12) inches in length from the nearest point of attachment is allowed. A maximum of sixty (60) pounds of peak weight is allowed and will be shot from the yellow stake with a maximum of 35 yards. * – ** If a shooter wins twice while competing in the Female Hunter Class (FHC) at a national or world level tournament during one IBO shoot calendar year, that shooter must advance to a higher competitive level the following IBO shoot calendar year. Once this shooter advances to the higher competitive level, he/she must remain at that level for an entire IBO shoot calendar year. Hunter Fingers (HF) A compound, recurve, or longbow with or without sights, may be shot with finger tab, glove or bare fingers. If a sight is used it will have no more than four (4) fixed or crosshair style pins. Circle pins allowed if all circles are the same size. Arrows must have screw in style points and a minimum of 4 inch vanes or feathers. Only one (1) single stabilizer being less than twelve (12) inches in length from the nearest point of attachment is allowed. A maximum of eighty (80) pounds of peak weight is allowed and will be shot from the yellow stake with a maximum of 35 yards. * – ** If a shooter wins twice while competing in the Hunter Fingers (HF) Class at a national or world level tournament during one IBO shoot calendar year, that shooter must advance to a higher competitive level the following IBO shoot calendar year. Once this shooter advances to the higher competitive level, he/she must remain at that level for an entire IBO shoot calendar year. *No lens with or without magnification may be shot in the hunter classes. **Secondary vibration dampeners may be used in the hunter classes that extend less than two (2) inches, from point of attachment. These vibration dampeners are not counter weights, and weight may not be added to one. MALE BOWHUNTER FINGERS (MBF) A compound, recurve or longbow, must be shot with a glove, finger tab or bare fingers. A fixed pin, cross hair, or moveable sight is allowable. A scope style sight, with or without lens is now allowed in the MBF class. Circle style pins are allowable (if circles are of one size). Must be shot from the orange stake. No lens with or without magnification may be used in any class designating fixed pins. MALE COMPOUND UNAIDED (MCU) A compound bow with no sighting device. A rest and plunger are all that may reside within the sight window. There will be no markings on the bow or bowstring that could be construed as sighting marks. Must be shot with a glove, finger tab or bare fingers. Must be shot from the green stake. MALE BOWHUNTER RELEASE (MBR) A compound bow, recurve or long bow with or without a sight. If a sight is used, it will have fixed pins and must be shot with some type of release aid. Cross hair style pins are allowable as fixed pin sights. Circle style pins are allowable (if circles are of one size). Sights that utilize any lens, with or without magnification are not allowed in MBR class. Sights may not be adjusted while on the range during a tournament. Must be shot from the green stake. FEMALE BOWHUNTER RELEASE (FBR) A compound bow, recurve or long bow with or without a sight. If a sight is used, it will have fixed pins and must be shot with some type of release aid. Cross hair style pins are allowable as fixed pin sights. Circle style pins are allowable (if circles are of one size). Sights that utilize any lens with or magnification are not allowed in the FBR class. Sights may not be adjusted while on the range during a tournament. Must be shot from the green stake. MALE BOWHUNTER OPEN (MBO) A compound bow, recurve or long bow with a moveable sight, scope or laser sight. Any type of release aid, glove, finger tab or bare fingers may be used. Must be shot from the orange stake. FEMALE BOWHUNTER OPEN (FBO) A compound bow, recurve or long bow with a moveable sight, scope or laser sight. Any type of release aid, glove, finger tab or bare fingers may be used. Must be shot from the green stake. FEMALE BOWHUNTER FINGERS (FBF)– DELETED These shooters may now participate in the Female Hunter Class, Female Bowhunter Release class, or Female Bowhunter Open classes. RECURVE UN-AIDED (RU) A recurve or long bow with no sighting device. A rest and plunger are all that may reside within the sight window. There will be no markings on the bow or on the bowstring that could be construed as sighting marks. There will not be any type of draw check on the bow or string. Must be shot with glove, finger tab or bare fingers. While shooting the archer shall touch the arrow with the index finger against the nock, and using a single anchor point. The arrow shall be of the same material and in uniform length and weight. A single stabilizer may be used that is no longer than 12 inches from the point of attachment. Stabilizer-Any device used for the stabilization of the bow. Must be shot from the white stake. YOUTH MALE RELEASE (YMR 13-14) – 13-14 YEARS OF AGE A compound, recurve or longbow with or without a sight. If a sight is used, it can be fixed pins, moveable sight, scope or laser type sight and must be shot with some type of release aid. Must be shot from the yellow stake. YOUTH MALE RELEASE (YMR 15-17) – 15-17 YEARS OF AGE A compound, recurve or longbow with or without a sight. If a sight is used, it can be fixed pins, moveable sight, scope or laser type sight and must be shot with some type of release aid. Must be shot from the green stake. YOUTH MALE FINGERS (YMF) – 13-17 YEARS OF AGE A compound, recurve, or longbow with or without a sight. If a sight is used, it can be fixed pins, moveable sight, and scope or laser type sight and must be shot with a glove, finger tab or bare fingers. Must be shot from the yellow stake. YOUTH FEMALE (YF) – 13-17 YEARS OF AGE A compound, recurve, or longbow with or without a sight. If a sight is used, it can be fixed pins, moveable sight, and scope or laser type sight. Any type of release aid, glove, finger tab or bare fingers may be used. Must be shot from the yellow stake. CUB – 9 – 12 YEARS OF AGE May shoot any type of … read more »

Response:

Thanks bro I mean it….. it took you time to write that response THANKS….. one last question.. since no camo.. should I wear hunter orange…  LOL really laughing Thanks Again +++++ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do all 3D shoots follow the same rules / classes or are they up to the > club or organization holding the event ???? > Most  follow IBO, but not always. > Many shoots are just simply that; shoots. There is no formal competition > except with yourself. Don’t get too hung up on rules right now. Just go and > have fun and you will see it is very casual. You don’t even have to keep > score if you don’t want to. > Advice for beginners? Have fun, don’t worry about competition until your > familiar with how things work and have fun. Its a blast. Most shoots start > first thing in the morning and will start shooters until early afternoon. > Alot of times the course will loop back to the clubhouse area so you will > get a halfway break. It’s similar to golf. If your holding up a smaller > party, you may want to let them "shoot through". Similarly, you don’t want > to approach the stakes of the next target if another party is shooting. > Common courtesy says that you keep quiet while someone shoots. I guess > glassing the target is allowed only once before your at the stakes or while > at the stakes? Something silly like that. I don’t use binoculars for 3D > shooting mostly because I use 3D shoots as hunting practice. I would never > use binocs in the field so why use them to cheat at a 3D? > Things to bring: Sun screen, bug dope, soap or furniture polish for your > arrows, a water bottle is nice as is a good arrow puller. A cooler with some > beverages and maybe lunch too. I only carry the water bottle and a towel on > course. A holster on your belt that helps support your bow, or allows your > bow to hang at your side can save your arms. Bows get real heavy when you > carry them all day. Thats about it. Just go and have fun. When you register, > just tell the guys its your first time, and they’ll explain everything. > (takes about 30 seconds) > Oh yeah, personal advice: Don’t wear camoflage to a 3D shoot….just don’t > do it. You may have to look for an arrow in the woods…..its just silly to > be wearing camo to a 3D shoot. You will see alot of people doing just that > though. Not that its a dangerous sport, but a little common sense would be > nice. > Here’s a VERY handy link for finding shoots in your state: > http://www.bowsite.org/bowsite/3dshoots/main.cfm > IBO websight: > http://www.ibo.net/ > Here are the IBO’s formal rules. Each club usually has their own though or > loosely follow these. > http://www.ibo.net/rules/ > I listed the class definitions below: > I.B.O. CLASSES DEFINED > Hunter Class (HC) > A compound, recurve, or longbow with or without sights, may be shot with > release aid, finger tab, glove or bare fingers. If a sight is used it will > have no more than four (4) fixed or crosshair style pins. Circle pins > allowed if all circles are the same size. Arrows must have screw in style > points and a minimum of 4 inch vanes or feathers. Only one (1) single > stabilizer being less than twelve (12) inches in length from the nearest > point of attachment is allowed. A maximum of eighty (80) pounds of peak > weight is allowed and will be shot from the yellow stake with a maximum of > 35 yards. * – ** > If a shooter wins twice while competing in the Hunter Class at a national or > world level tournament during one IBO shoot calendar year, that shooter must > advance to a higher competitive level the following IBO shoot calendar year. > Once this shooter advances to the higher competitive level, he/she must > remain at that level for an entire IBO shoot calendar year. > Female Hunter Class (FHC) > A compound, recurve, or longbow with or without sights, may be shot with > release, finger tab glove, or bare fingers. If a sight is used it will have > no more than four (4) fixed or crosshair style pins. Circle pins allowed if > all circles are the same size. Arrows must have screw in style points and a > minimum of 4 inch vanes or feathers. Only one (1) single stabilizer being > less than twelve (12) inches in length from the nearest point of attachment > is allowed. A maximum of sixty (60) pounds of peak weight is allowed and > will be shot from the yellow stake with a maximum of 35 yards. * – ** > If a shooter wins twice while competing in the Female Hunter Class (FHC) at > a national or world level tournament during one IBO shoot calendar year, > that shooter must advance to a higher competitive level the following IBO > shoot calendar year. Once this shooter advances to the higher competitive > level, he/she must remain at that level for an entire IBO shoot calendar > year. > Hunter Fingers (HF) > A compound, recurve, or longbow with or without sights, may be shot with > finger tab, glove or bare fingers. If a sight is used it will have no more > than four (4) fixed or crosshair style pins. Circle pins allowed if all > circles are the same size. Arrows must have screw in style points and a > minimum of 4 inch vanes or feathers. Only one (1) single stabilizer being > less than twelve (12) inches in length from the nearest point of attachment > is allowed. A maximum of eighty (80) pounds of peak weight is allowed and > will be shot from the yellow stake with a maximum of 35 yards. * – ** > If a shooter wins twice while competing in the Hunter Fingers (HF) Class at > a national or world level tournament during one IBO shoot calendar year, > that shooter must advance to a higher competitive level the following IBO > shoot calendar year. Once this shooter advances to the higher competitive > level, he/she must remain at that level for an entire IBO shoot calendar > year. > *No lens with or without magnification may be shot in the hunter classes. > **Secondary vibration dampeners may be used in the hunter classes that > extend less than two (2) inches, from point of attachment. These vibration > dampeners are not counter weights, and weight may not be added to one. > MALE BOWHUNTER FINGERS (MBF) > A compound, recurve or longbow, must be shot with a glove, finger tab or > bare fingers. A fixed pin, cross hair, or moveable sight is allowable. A > scope style sight, with or without lens is now allowed in the MBF class. > Circle style pins are allowable (if circles are of one size). Must be shot > from the orange stake. No lens with or without magnification may be used in > any class designating fixed pins. > MALE COMPOUND UNAIDED (MCU) > A compound bow with no sighting device. A rest and plunger are all that may > reside within the sight window. There will be no markings on the bow or > bowstring that could be construed as sighting marks. Must be shot with a > glove, finger tab or bare fingers. Must be shot from the green stake. > MALE BOWHUNTER RELEASE (MBR) > A compound bow, recurve or long bow with or without a sight. If a sight is > used, it will have fixed pins and must be shot with some type of release > aid. Cross hair style pins are allowable as fixed pin sights. Circle style > pins are allowable (if circles are of one size). Sights that utilize any > lens, with or without magnification are not allowed in MBR class. Sights may > not be adjusted while on the range during a tournament. Must be shot from > the green stake. > FEMALE BOWHUNTER RELEASE (FBR) > A compound bow, recurve or long bow with or without a sight. If a sight is > used, it will have fixed pins and must be shot with some type of release > aid. Cross hair style pins are allowable as fixed pin sights. Circle style > pins are allowable (if circles are of one size). Sights that utilize any > lens with or magnification are not allowed in the FBR class. Sights may not > be adjusted while on the range during a tournament. Must be shot from the > green stake. > MALE BOWHUNTER OPEN (MBO) > A compound bow, recurve or long bow with a moveable sight, scope or laser > sight. Any type of release aid, glove, finger tab or bare fingers may be > used. Must be shot from the orange stake. > FEMALE BOWHUNTER OPEN (FBO) > A compound bow, recurve or long bow with a moveable sight, scope or laser > sight. Any type of release aid, glove, finger tab or bare fingers may be > used. Must be shot from the green stake. > FEMALE BOWHUNTER FINGERS (FBF)– DELETED > These shooters may now participate in the Female Hunter Class, Female > Bowhunter Release class, or Female Bowhunter Open classes. > RECURVE UN-AIDED (RU) > A recurve or long bow with no sighting device. A rest and plunger are all > that may reside within the sight window. There will be no markings on the > bow or on the bowstring that could be construed as sighting marks. There > will not be any type of draw check on the bow or string. Must be shot with > glove, finger tab or bare fingers. While shooting the archer shall touch the > arrow with the index finger against the nock, and using a single anchor > point. The arrow shall be of the same material and in uniform length and > weight. A single stabilizer may be used that is no longer than 12 inches > from the point of attachment. Stabilizer-Any device used for the > stabilization of the bow. Must be shot from the white stake. > YOUTH MALE RELEASE (YMR 13-14) – 13-14 YEARS OF AGE > A compound, recurve or longbow with or without a sight. If a sight is used, > it can be fixed pins, moveable sight, scope or laser type sight and must be > shot with some type of release aid. Must be shot from the yellow stake. > YOUTH MALE RELEASE (YMR 15-17) – 15-17 YEARS OF AGE > A compound, recurve or longbow with or without a sight. If a sight is used, > it can be fixed pins, moveable sight, scope or laser type sight and must be > shot with some type of release aid. Must be shot from the green stake. > YOUTH MALE FINGERS (YMF) – 13-17 YEARS OF AGE > A compound, recurve, or longbow

… read more »

Response:

> Thanks bro > I mean it….. > it took you time to write that response > THANKS….. > one last question.. since no camo.. > should I wear hunter orange…  LOL > really laughing

No problem. (Its a little slow around lunchtime here.) Hunter orange? Now that would be worse than the camo! Ok…..how about orange camo?  :) Good luck

Response:

>Do all 3D shoots follow the same rules / classes >or are they up to the club or organization holding the event ????

Yes, Fita rules are quite different, they are the only rules used in denmark, at the moment! Best regards Tonny Gram Denmark

Response:

bending bowarm or not

Question:

Is there a website where I can find an instruction from a high level coach (maybe the US national coach) for compound shooters? It is the question, should a compound shooter (FITA target) shoot with a bended bowarm or (like the recurve shooters) with a straight bowarm. All what I see is that the top archers (Morgan Lundin, David Cousin, etc.) are shooting with a bended arm. But our german national coach teach the straight bowarm for ccompounders and is in oposite opinion to the rest of the german coaches. — Sven

Response:

> Is there a website where I can find an instruction from > a high level coach (maybe the US national coach) for compound > shooters? > It is the question, should a compound shooter (FITA target) shoot with > a bended bowarm or (like the recurve shooters) with a straight bowarm. > All what I see is that the top archers (Morgan Lundin, David Cousin, > etc.) are shooting with a bended arm. But our german national coach > teach the straight bowarm for ccompounders and is in oposite opinion > to the rest of the german coaches. > — > Sven

Go with what feels right for you. Tom

Response:

>Is there a website where I can find an instruction from >a high level coach (maybe the US national coach) for compound >shooters?

Not that I know of. >All what I see is that the top archers (Morgan Lundin, David Cousin, >etc.) are shooting with a bended arm.

Take a look again – look at video of World Championships in particular. There are many top-level compound archers shooting both bent bowarm and straight bowarm. I’d say though that the majority do seem to prefer bent… it’s down to what works for you. Don’t allow any coach to bully you into using a particular style if you’ve tried it for a significant period of time and it isn’t working for you. >But our german national coach >teach the straight bowarm for ccompounders and is in oposite opinion >to the rest of the german coaches.

I personally wouldn’t rate any coach who will not accept any individual style differences… national or not.

Response:

Sven It depends upon what you mean by "straight". If you stand upright with your arms relaxed and hanging from the shoulders they fall into a natural unstrained position. To straighten them further you have to push your hands down towards the ground. To put more bend into the elbow you hav to lift the hands away from the ground using the muscles of the upper arm. When I lift the bow, I try to reproduce the "natural" position that results from letting the arm hang. It means that the arm is extended, but not over-extended. I find that extending the arm beyond this natural position tends to cause the shoulder to rise and makes it more difficult to get back muscles into play. It also means that there is no provision for further extension and follow-through on loosing the arrow. I know a lot of good compound archers who shoot excellent scores with what I would consider to be an exaggerated bend at the elbow. I find it uncomfortable personally and really only possible because of the low holding weight that results from the let-off on the compound bow. Since I shoot both compound and recurve I seek a basic stance that will work with either and I just cannot find a consistent draw length when I try to shoot recurve with a bent elbow. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is there a website where I can find an instruction from > a high level coach (maybe the US national coach) for compound > shooters? > It is the question, should a compound shooter (FITA target) shoot with > a bended bowarm or (like the recurve shooters) with a straight bowarm. > All what I see is that the top archers (Morgan Lundin, David Cousin, > etc.) are shooting with a bended arm. But our german national coach > teach the straight bowarm for ccompounders and is in oposite opinion > to the rest of the german coaches. > — > Sven

Response:

>Don’t allow >any coach to bully you into using a particular style if you’ve tried >it for a significant period of time and it isn’t working for you.

Thanks.  :-) — Sven

Response:

>Is there a website where I can find an instruction from >a high level coach (maybe the US national coach) for compound >shooters? >It is the question, should a compound shooter (FITA target) shoot with >a bended bowarm or (like the recurve shooters) with a straight bowarm. >All what I see is that the top archers (Morgan Lundin, David Cousin, >etc.) are shooting with a bended arm. But our german national coach >teach the straight bowarm for ccompounders and is in oposite opinion >to the rest of the german coaches.

Hi Sven, Check this out: http://www.arco-frecce.com/cam/wbeste.htm Pics of top archers before/after release. Very nice to confront dogmatic coaches with..

Response:

>http://www.arco-frecce.com/cam/wbeste.htm

Wow, great, thanks. — Sven

Response:

> Is there a website where I can find an instruction from > a high level coach (maybe the US national coach) for compound > shooters? > It is the question, should a compound shooter (FITA target) shoot with > a bended bowarm or (like the recurve shooters) with a straight bowarm. > All what I see is that the top archers (Morgan Lundin, David Cousin, > etc.) are shooting with a bended arm. But our german national coach > teach the straight bowarm for ccompounders and is in oposite opinion > to the rest of the german coaches.

IMHO and still learning, if your basic techneque is solid you should go with what feels right for you. John

Response:

Disposing of cooking oil

Question:

Nor cover scents,  From Pennsylvania Game Commision Web Site (Black Bear Hunting Laws and Regulations): Taking Advantage of Food or Bait It is unlawful to hunt in or around any area where artificial or natural bait, food, hay, grain, fruit, nuts, salt, chemicals or minerals, including their residues, are used or have been used within the past 30 days as an enticement to lure a bear or other wildlife, regardless of the type or quantity. Scents and Lures Hunters may not use scents and lures while bear hunting. This includes cover scents. — Alberg30, "Fair Wind"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> That’s illegal in Pennsylvania, and it should be. You can’t even use > attractant scents here. > Could give it to bear hunter.  Their favorite techniqque is to fill a > pit full of donuts, grease, melted candy, etc. & cap the bear from a > tree stand about 20 feet away.  I am not against hunting per se but this > is hardly fair.  Now bullriding on the other hand . . .

Response:

That’s illegal in Pennsylvania, and it should be. You can’t even use attractant scents here.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Could give it to bear hunter.  Their favorite techniqque is to fill a > pit full of donuts, grease, melted candy, etc. & cap the bear from a > tree stand about 20 feet away.  I am not against hunting per se but this > is hardly fair.  Now bullriding on the other hand . . .

Response:

I use it in my burn barrel.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Could give it to bear hunter.  Their favorite techniqque is to fill a > pit full of donuts, grease, melted candy, etc. & cap the bear from a > tree stand about 20 feet away.  I am not against hunting per se but this > is hardly fair.  Now bullriding on the other hand . . .

Response:

Could give it to bear hunter.  Their favorite techniqque is to fill a pit full of donuts, grease, melted candy, etc. & cap the bear from a tree stand about 20 feet away.  I am not against hunting per se but this is hardly fair.  Now bullriding on the other hand . . .

Response:

>Hey, where’s those two guys that converted a motor to run on deep fryer fat,

If you’re interested, check out bio-diesel at google or your favorite search engine. I think they dubbed the vehicle "The green machine" or some such. — be safe, flip ^___^ ^.^/ ==u==

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Really bad for the cesspool. > Filter the stuff through a great bunch of old rags, > and use it for lamp oil in tiki torches. > Home owner disposing oil from a deep fryer.  What effect would it have > on a cesspool? > Help it? > Hurt it? > Not a factor > delete "nospam" for e-mail reply

Dig a hole in your backyard and bury it.  This stuff is bio-degradable. Yaofeng

Response:

www.veggievan.org

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hey, where’s those two guys that converted a motor to run on deep fryer fat, > If you’re interested, check out bio-diesel at google or your favorite > search engine. I think they dubbed the vehicle "The green machine" or > some such. > — > be safe, > flip > ^___^ > ^.^/ > ==u==

Response:

> Home owner disposing oil from a deep fryer.  What effect would it have > on a cesspool?

I hope you don’t use it once and throw it away.  Unless used for something with strong odor, like fish, or you’ve burnt something in it, there is no reason not to reuse it.  Strain it and put into a container in the fridge to reuse.  Peanut oil has higher smoking temperature, which I learned when I started cooking in a wok, but don’t know how it is for deep frying. Might get more use from it since it doesn’t burn as easily.  Your community recycling center might have a place to drop it off, too.  My city has gotten stricter with restaurants and used oil, but haven’t really paid attention to the nitty gritty – perhaps a company that picks it up from restaurants will take it off your hands. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Help it? > Hurt it? > Not a factor > delete "nospam" for e-mail reply

Response:

>I hope you don’t use it once and throw it away.  Unless used for something >with strong odor, like fish, or you’ve burnt something in it, there is no >reason not to reuse it.

Unless you have a cholesterol problem. Oil begins to become saturated the longer it is heated. If you are using an oil that is low in saturated fats, that is only true *before* it is heated. This is why the oil clouds up a bit after being heated. The more saturated it gets, the cloudier it will be after it cools to room temperature. This is why french fries purchased at a fast food place early in the day are *slightly* better for you than those purchased later in the day! —       Calvin Henry-Cotnam      | "Nothing quite livens up a suburban        DAXaCK associates       | neighbourhood like a driveway boasting Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada | plastic milk crates loaded with crap." http://home.ica.net/~calvinhc  |   — John Oakley, radio talk-show host        NOTE: if replying by email, remove the capital letters!

Response:

Really bad for the cesspool. Filter the stuff through a great bunch of old rags, and use it for lamp oil in tiki torches. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Home owner disposing oil from a deep fryer.  What effect would it have > on a cesspool? > Help it? > Hurt it? > Not a factor > delete "nospam" for e-mail reply

Response:

No, never dump grease into your septic system. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Home owner disposing oil from a deep fryer.  What effect would it have >on a cesspool?   >Help it?   >Hurt it?   >Not a factor >delete "nospam" for e-mail reply

Response:

>Home owner disposing oil from a deep fryer.  What effect would it have >on a cesspool?   >Help it?   >Hurt it?   >Not a factor

Hurt it. Hey, where’s those two guys that converted a motor to run on deep fryer fat, then drove it cross country, (stopping at restaurants to refuel), when you need them?

Response:

>Home owner disposing oil from a deep fryer.  What effect would it have >on a cesspool?  

Restaurant cooking oil waste is usually sold to pig farmers. They even come around to collect it from you. klmok

Response:

> >Home owner disposing oil from a deep fryer.  What effect would it have >on a cesspool? > Restaurant cooking oil waste is usually sold to pig farmers. They even > come around to collect it from you. > klmok

this is Turtle. The Dog Kennel owners use it to fatten up a dog that is sick or has been starved a lot. You put it in their food and they get fat fast. TURTLE

Response:

> Home owner disposing oil from a deep fryer.  What effect would it have > on a cesspool?   > Help it?   > Hurt it?   > Not a factor

Go to your favorite restaurant and talk to the manager to see if they will take it. Few years back the grease collection outfits would pay for the used fat, but now it’s the opposite. — Bebop

Response:

>Home owner disposing oil from a deep fryer.  What effect would it have >on a cesspool?

I’ve heard of people who have modified a diesel engine to burn cooking oil instead of diesel. I am suspecting that the modifications/adjustments are similar in nature to what needs to be done to a gasoline engine to allow it to burn straight alcohol (I don’t mean the exact same things need to be done, but let me continue with the analogy…) Given that you can usually burn a gas/alcohol mixture with something like 10% alcohol in the mix without modifying the engine, I suspect that you could also probably put up to 10% cooking oil in a mix with diesel and run without problems. Any diesel experts here that can confirm or deny this? —       Calvin Henry-Cotnam      | "Nothing quite livens up a suburban        DAXaCK associates       | neighbourhood like a driveway boasting Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada | plastic milk crates loaded with crap." http://home.ica.net/~calvinhc  |   — John Oakley, radio talk-show host        NOTE: if replying by email, remove the capital letters!

Response:

repairing synthetic rubber

Question:

>And not all "rubber" is rubber.

Tautology.

Response:

>Any suggestions?

There are many types of synthetic rubber.  Without knowing the specific type, you can’t know how to glue it.

Response:

>>Any suggestions? >There are many types of synthetic rubber.  Without knowing the specific >type, you can’t know how to glue it.

And not all "rubber" is rubber. Andy Asberry Prescription without diagnosis is malpractice, in medicine and mechanics.

Response:

I’ve got a pair of synthetic rubber duck boots, and one of them has a split at a stress point in the upper (not the sole). I’d rather repair than replace them, if possible. I’ve tried a lot of approaches, including a repair kit for bicycle tubes. But nothing lasts. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Response:

>I’ve got a pair of synthetic rubber duck boots, and one of them has a split at >a stress point in the upper (not the sole). >I’d rather repair than replace them, if possible. I’ve tried a lot of >approaches, including a repair kit for bicycle tubes. But nothing lasts. >Any suggestions? Thanks.

I’m in the tire business; 36 years. Tires and tubes are made with synthetic rubber. We used to have a fellow come into the shop who ran a boys’ club. He had several pairs of waders for duck hunting and trout fishing. The kids were pretty hard on the waders. They were always poking holes in them. We use Rema brand tire repair materials. The "red edge" tube patches worked great for us. Always use the same brand cement and patch. Find a good tire shop and ask what brand materials they use. Andy Asberry Prescription without diagnosis is malpractice, in medicine and mechanics.

Response: