Differences on calibres

Question:

>When thinking about calibres, the two most important factors are projectile >weight and its velocity, which translates into foot-pounds of energy.

Only to a point.  I’d say bullet construction comes first, putting it in the right place comes a close second. >The >state of Maryland, where I live, states that the rifle used for deer >hunting "should be capable of developing a muzzle velocity of at least 1200 >foot-pounds".  The .270 I use develops around 1400.

Really?  I’m surprised: a 150grn bullet fired from a .270 (or any other gun) at say 2900fps delivers 2801ft-lbs — you’re wide of the mark by a factor of two.  For a large deer, a delivered energy (on impact) of 900ft-lbs is widely accepted as being plenty.  At 200 yards, your .270 delivers 2092ft-lbs, twice the 900ft-lbs suggested. >This gets into another discussion topic; namely the amount of force >delivered to the animal at impact, and is it enough of a shock to kill?

There’s a difference between the bullet *arriving* with a given amount of energy, and the *tranferring* energy.  That’s down to bullet construction, and placement. >If >that is the case, one could conceivably use a .177 Husqvarna and blast away >(on a calm day; and assuming you don’t want the meat).

Excepting that you haven’t considered wind drift on that teeny-weeny bullet.  :-) –Jonathan Jonathan Spencer — forensic firearms examiner Keith Borer Consultants Mountjoy Research Centre, Durham, England, DH1 3UR tel: +44 191 386 6107   fax: +44 191 383 0686 Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

I think what is often missed in discussions of this type, is how much of that kenetic energy is actually transfered to the animal. this is where larger bullet sizes and hollow points come in to play. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->When thinking about calibres, the two most important factors are >weight and its velocity, which translates into foot-pounds of energy. >Only to a point.  I’d say bullet construction comes first, putting it in >the right place comes a close second. >state of Maryland, where I live, states that the rifle used for deer >hunting "should be capable of developing a muzzle velocity of at least >foot-pounds".  The .270 I use develops around 1400. >Really?  I’m surprised: a 150grn bullet fired from a .270 (or any other >gun) at say 2900fps delivers 2801ft-lbs — you’re wide of the mark by a >factor of two.  For a large deer, a delivered energy (on impact) of >900ft-lbs is widely accepted as being plenty.  At 200 yards, your .270 >delivers 2092ft-lbs, twice the 900ft-lbs suggested. >This gets into another discussion topic; namely the amount of force >delivered to the animal at impact, and is it enough of a shock to kill? >There’s a difference between the bullet *arriving* with a given amount >of energy, and the *tranferring* energy.  That’s down to bullet >construction, and placement. >that is the case, one could conceivably use a .177 Husqvarna and blast >(on a calm day; and assuming you don’t want the meat). >Excepting that you haven’t considered wind drift on that teeny-weeny >bullet.  :-)

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Response:

> I have read a lot lately about how .223 is good/not good for deer, .243 > also good/not good, etc., and how the only way to really take that ol’ > down is to use a .300 or .375. > When thinking about calibres, the two most important factors are > weight and its velocity, which translates into foot-pounds of energy. > state of Maryland, where I live, states that the rifle used for deer > hunting "should be capable of developing a muzzle velocity of at least > foot-pounds".  The .270 I use develops around 1400. > This gets into another discussion topic; namely the amount of force > delivered to the animal at impact, and is it enough of a shock to kill? > that is the case, one could conceivably use a .177 Husqvarna and blast > (on a calm day; and assuming you don’t want the meat).

I’m sorry, David, but you seem very confused about some things.  While two very important things to consider are projectile weight and velocity, they are far from the only factors to consider when talking about lethality of a particular cartridge.  Bullet diameter (and therefore sectional density), and bullet construction are also absolutely essential.  Kinetic energy is an important figure, but does not in itself indicate much about lethal effect. You better re-read the Maryland regulations.  There is no such thing as a velocity of 1200 foot-pounds. I have used a .270 on deer for years, and I have no idea what yours develops 1400 of. What is a .177 Husqvarna? Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

I have read a lot lately about how .223 is good/not good for deer, .243 is also good/not good, etc., and how the only way to really take that ol’ deer down is to use a .300 or .375. When thinking about calibres, the two most important factors are projectile weight and its velocity, which translates into foot-pounds of energy.  The state of Maryland, where I live, states that the rifle used for deer hunting "should be capable of developing a muzzle velocity of at least 1200 foot-pounds".  The .270 I use develops around 1400. This gets into another discussion topic; namely the amount of force delivered to the animal at impact, and is it enough of a shock to kill?  If that is the case, one could conceivably use a .177 Husqvarna and blast away (on a calm day; and assuming you don’t want the meat). Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

Shooting slugs in a full choke barrel

Question:

My gun smith told me to NOT DO IT if it is a screw in choke,  My buddy jim did it, BAD RESULTS.   But  if  its a barrel  with a  choke made with  the gun  i have had no trouble.  Like a single shot  gun  has. Good luck. Chris Barnes                                    (409) 846-3273 (home) Moderator – rec.hunting Rec.hunting web site:   about to move – stay tuned. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

> > >I know that you should use an improved cylinder barrel for slugs, but > >can I shoot them through a full choke barrel?  My dad has a Remington > >1100 full choke, and I was wondering if I could use it safely for deer > >hunting.

        Well, it will shoot them, that’s for sure, but I’d be leary of possible high pressure as a result. Chris Barnes                                    (409) 846-3273 (home) Moderator – rec.hunting Rec.hunting web site:   about to move – stay tuned. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

I know that you should use an improved cylinder barrel for slugs, but can I shoot them through a full choke barrel?  My dad has a Remington 1100 full choke, and I was wondering if I could use it safely for deer hunting.  I have heard that you can blow up the barrel by shooting slugs.  My dad has shot slugs, so it obviously works, but what risks am I taking? Does anybody know what remmington recommends? Thanks, Don Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

>I know that you should use an improved cylinder barrel for slugs, but >can I shoot them through a full choke barrel?  My dad has a Remington >1100 full choke, and I was wondering if I could use it safely for deer >hunting.  I have heard that you can blow up the barrel by shooting >slugs.  My dad has shot slugs, so it obviously works, but what risks am >I taking? >Does anybody know what remmington recommends? >Thanks, >Don

I don’t think you’ll risk any damage to the gun that way. The conventional wisdom seems to be that slugs shoot more accurately with little or no choke, but the best thing to do is try it and see. I hope this helps, Bob Athay Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

>DVJohnson,<BR> > >I know that you should use an improved cylinder barrel for slugs, but<BR> > >can I shoot them through a full choke barrel?  My dad has a Remington<BR> > >1100 full choke, and I was wondering if I could use it safely for deer

No firearms manufacturer recommends this; with good reason. It is also no coincidence that in times past, rifle sighted factory slug barrels were provided in cylinder bore. As mentioned many times (by many people), "choke" as stamped on the barrel does not mean much – - – as "choke" is performance based, not constriction based. Some of the Belgian Browning barrels have as much as .050 constriction, in example. In any case, why not err on the side of caution? I can’t tell you the odds of bulging your Dad’s barrel (or worse), but you would be taking an unnecessary risk. Slug barrels are not that pricey, and certain slug combo firearms (Rem. 870 Express Combo) are quite reasonable as well. Good hunting, Randy Wakeman Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

> >I know that you should use an improved cylinder barrel for slugs, but >can I shoot them through a full choke barrel?  My dad has a Remington >1100 full choke, and I was wondering if I could use it safely for deer >hunting.  I have heard that you can blow up the barrel by shooting >slugs.  My dad has shot slugs, so it obviously works, but what risks am >I taking? >Does anybody know what remmington recommends? >Thanks, >Don

   Remington used to recomend nothing tighter than an improved cylinder. This was due to the size of the slug in relation to the choke I.D.  A solid lead slug will not compress like a shot/wad combination. Theoretically, this can cause damage to the choke/barrel.  That being said, my father shot slugs through an old stevens single shot full choke for about 15 years and the gun never so much as hiccuped.  Go figure.  I work at a gunshop and conventional "wisdom" says IC or more open.  I think that this is mainly a liability issue.  It is basically a big CYA.  I don;t think that it would hurt your gun for a few trial rounds. Hope this helps    Dave Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

Rem.870 Slug Gun

Question:

I have one with choke tubes.  The fully rifled barrels are supposed to work better with Sabots ( pronounced Say-bows, and all those years I called them say-botts)  Mine shoots 2" at 50 yards.  It is not heavy and there is little be gained by using the 3"Magnum.  It is just as loud as your 11-87 and slugs kick hard. — Henry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’m concidering buying a new slug gun, for hunting the suburban >areas, of Pa. I kind of like the looks of the Rem. 870 Wingmaster with >the cantilever scope mount in 12 ga. Does anybody have any experience >with this gun? I was wondering how accurate it is out to 100 yds.Is it a >heavy gun? Is it quiet? I know that it is probly very reliable as most >Rem. guns are. Right now I’m using a Rem. model 1187, with a smoothbore >slug barrel it works pretty good, but I wanted to advance to the next >level of slug guns. I really don’t want to by another barrel for it >because in many areas of Pa. semi- autos are not permitted for deer >hunting. What ammo works best and what are the best whitetail loads? >Thanks in advance, Jim Reilly, Langhorne Pa….Please E-Mail me…. >– >"Opinions expressed are mine and not those of Rohm and Haas Company" >Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: >        http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ >To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

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Response:

I’m concidering buying a new slug gun, for hunting the suburban areas, of Pa. I kind of like the looks of the Rem. 870 Wingmaster with the cantilever scope mount in 12 ga. Does anybody have any experience with this gun? I was wondering how accurate it is out to 100 yds.Is it a heavy gun? Is it quiet? I know that it is probly very reliable as most Rem. guns are. Right now I’m using a Rem. model 1187, with a smoothbore slug barrel it works pretty good, but I wanted to advance to the next level of slug guns. I really don’t want to by another barrel for it because in many areas of Pa. semi- autos are not permitted for deer hunting. What ammo works best and what are the best whitetail loads? Thanks in advance, Jim Reilly, Langhorne Pa….Please E-Mail me…. — "Opinions expressed are mine and not those of Rohm and Haas Company" Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

> I’m concidering buying a new slug gun, for hunting the suburban > areas, of Pa. I kind of like the looks of the Rem. 870 Wingmaster with > the cantilever scope mount in 12 ga. Does anybody have any experience > with this gun? I was wondering how accurate it is out to 100 yds.Is it a > heavy gun? Is it quiet? I know that it is probly very reliable as most > Rem. guns are. Right now I’m using a Rem. model 1187, with a smoothbore > slug barrel it works pretty good, but I wanted to advance to the next > level of slug guns. I really don’t want to by another barrel for it > because in many areas of Pa. semi- autos are not permitted for deer > hunting. What ammo works best and what are the best whitetail loads? > Thanks in advance, Jim Reilly, Langhorne Pa….Please E-Mail me….

The Remington is nice and I looked at it a few times.  The reason I did not buy one is that it did not fit me.  The Winchester did and in the combo it came with 2 barrels, 27" vent rib with mod choke and a rifled slug barrel with sights.  It is also drilled and tapped for a scope though I have not put on on [I live in the poconos and we still use rifles here]. One question I do have is which is the better bet, a rifled slug barrel or a smooth bore slug barrel and saboted rifled slugs.  At the 100 yard ranges these are used in does it really make a difference.  My 12ga rifled slug barrel is VERY accurate at 100 yards and I have never tried or compared a smooth bore slug barrel.  It would seem to me that with a smooth bore barrel with sights you would have the versitlity of using buck shot wherein buckshot does not work real well in a rifled barrel [not to mention it's a bitch to clean]. Richard J. Pierson Lucent Technologies -LCCC Liberty Corners NJ Voice 908.580.8901 Fax 908.580.6289 Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

Quality 7.62×39 hunting ammo for white tail deer?

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->         Well, if my gun smith doesn’t finish the > work he’s doing soon > on my Savage model 99, I may need to take my SKS > carbine out for deer > hunting. >         I’m a reasonable person, I know the > limits of both the caliber > and the gun.  I’ll have to limit my shorts to > shorter range than I > would with my .308 and I’ll need to get better > quality shots. >          Given that I do understand what the > limits are and won’t try > any marginal shots, what are the choices in > Amercian made, hunting > ammo in 7.62×39? >         p.s. No, I will not use the imported, > "made to hunting > specifications" ammo!

I have had good luck on Javelina here in Arizona with my mini-30 in 7.62X39.  I only use quality Federal soft point ammo.  I have compared the Russian and Chezk stuff at the range and there is no comparison.  There is also no comparison in price with Federalat the $10 for 20 and the imports at $3 to $5.  However, I get to hunt pig once a year.  I am not going to compromise my hunt for $5. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dr. Megabyte [Mark E. Sunderlin] wrote in article >        Well, if my gun smith doesn’t finish the work he’s doing soon >on my Savage model 99, I may need to take my SKS carbine out for deer >hunting. >        I’m a reasonable person, I know the limits of both the caliber >and the gun.  I’ll have to limit my shorts to shorter range than I >would with my .308 and I’ll need to get better quality shots. >         Given that I do understand what the limits are and won’t try >any marginal shots, what are the choices in Amercian made, hunting >ammo in 7.62×39? >        p.s. No, I will not use the imported, "made to hunting >specifications" ammo! >        Well, if my gun smith doesn’t finish the work he’s doing soon >on my Savage model 99, I may need to take my SKS carbine out for deer >hunting. >        I’m a reasonable person, I know the limits of both the caliber >and the gun.  I’ll have to limit my shorts to shorter range than I >would with my .308 and I’ll need to get better quality shots. >         Given that I do understand what the limits are and won’t try >any marginal shots, what are the choices in Amercian made, hunting >ammo in 7.62×39?

I used winchester soft point ammo to kill a doe last year. It was at 85 yards and she dropped in her tracks. The winchester ammo grouped well in my sks at the range but the remmington soft point ammo was worthless, could not get a decent grouping and in fact I could spin the bullet in the case with my fingers.               John Hardin Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

Dr. Megabyte [Mark E. Sunderlin] wrote in article >        Well, if my gun smith doesn’t finish the work he’s doing soon >on my Savage model 99, I may need to take my SKS carbine out for deer >hunting. >        I’m a reasonable person, I know the limits of both the caliber >and the gun.  I’ll have to limit my shorts to shorter range than I >would with my .308 and I’ll need to get better quality shots. >         Given that I do understand what the limits are and won’t try >any marginal shots, what are the choices in Amercian made, hunting >ammo in 7.62×39? >        p.s. No, I will not use the imported, "made to hunting >specifications" ammo!

Try Quality Cartridge http://www.owlnet.com/quality   they manufacture and sell a variety of hunting ammunition. 516-727-5785. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

        Well, if my gun smith doesn’t finish the work he’s doing soon on my Savage model 99, I may need to take my SKS carbine out for deer hunting.         I’m a reasonable person, I know the limits of both the caliber and the gun.  I’ll have to limit my shorts to shorter range than I would with my .308 and I’ll need to get better quality shots.          Given that I do understand what the limits are and won’t try any marginal shots, what are the choices in Amercian made, hunting ammo in 7.62×39?         p.s. No, I will not use the imported, "made to hunting specifications" ammo! — "The number of job openings for Philosopher-Kings is  limited in the late 20th Century." – Dr. Megabyte Tuba Playing Technocrat in Winchester, VA    KD4HRI Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/ To leave the Hunting listserv list, send a message with SIGNOFF HUNTING

Response:

Woody, Michael & Sure Kills.

Question:

: Your posts are there for all to read, as Woody has pointed out time : and again…you are constantly altering what you said in order to fit : the current argument…I think he refers to it as a "bait and switch". : You did make the statement about does and bucks as well as concluding : that shooting fawn bucks was acceptable population control when : compared with shooting only does. My point was that killing a fawn buck does more to protect next year’s corn than leaving a tag unfilled.  Your counterpoint that I should wait for an opportunity to kill multiple does at once was invalid because that’s illegal in Ohio.   You complained that I never listen to the advice of newsgroup members, so I posted back a number of instances where I found the advice helpful, and a few where I had good reason to reject the advice (such as it being against the law to follow it). — Michael Courtney, Ph. D.

Response:

: IMHO, one is alot less likely to improve his shooting/kill ratio if he : has decided that some mediocre result is adequate. One is alot less : likely to be successful culling the does if one has decided shooting : fawn bucks is just as good a population control measure. Joe is lying.  I never said that shooting fawn bucks was as good a population measure as shooting does.  I said that shooting a doe keeps three deer out of next year’s corn, but shooting a buck at least keeps one deer out. Joe, learn to love the truth.  Learn to stop lying.  Then maybe you’ll be a respectable human being in addition to whatever hunting skills you have. — Michael Courtney, Ph. D.

Response:

>Joe is lying.  I never said that shooting fawn bucks was >as good a population measure as shooting does.  I said that shooting >a doe keeps three deer out of next year’s corn, but shooting a buck >at least keeps one deer out. >Joe, learn to love the truth.  Learn to stop lying.  Then maybe you’ll >be a respectable human being in addition to whatever hunting skills >you have. >– >Michael Courtney, Ph. D.

Your posts are there for all to read, as Woody has pointed out time and again…you are constantly altering what you said in order to fit the current argument…I think he refers to it as a "bait and switch". You did make the statement about does and bucks as well as concluding that shooting fawn bucks was acceptable population control when compared with shooting only does. As far as calling me a liar goes…you little worm…. Ohio may be a good ways from Georgia…but you keep that up and you may get a chance to see just how you’ll react to a bellicose intruder….only I’ll be armed only with my bare hands…I am sure that would be sufficient. joe (not smiling)

Response:

I guess I’m going to have to eat my words… I said I would not respond to any more of PhD Michael’s posts, since he asks advice then rejects it as incorrect, but….. The Woody vs Michael  "sure kill" thread has smoked me out. In my humble, unsolicited opinion….Michael is destined to  continue receiving disappointing results in controlling his deer population…as long as he thinks he has all the answers and is willing to quickly disregard the opinions of those who are obviously more experienced than he. People like Woody. IMHO, one is alot less likely to improve his shooting/kill ratio if he has decided that some mediocre result is adequate. One is alot less likely to be successful culling the does if one has decided shooting fawn bucks is just as good a population control measure. In deer hunting you are likely to become just as accomplished as you are willing to make yourself. The first step in this process is being dissatisfied with your present level of ability. I guess that means that as long as you are always defending your current way of doing things….you ain’t gonna get much better at it. As I read these posts…that’s what jumps out at me. joe

Response:

a good first time bow?

Question:

anyone know of a good first time bow for me, age 14.  I’ll be deer hunting in florida.  any suggestions?

Response:

Look at some Browning models.  They are adjustable over a 3 inch draw length in case you are still growing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> anyone know of a good first time bow for me, age 14.  I’ll be deer > hunting in florida.  any suggestions?

Response:

> Look at some Browning models.  They are adjustable over a 3 inch draw > length in case you are still growing.

> anyone know of a good first time bow for me, age 14.  I’ll be deer > hunting in florida.  any suggestions?

hi glenn, my name is jim and i have been shooting bows for almost 10 years. i have used 4 or 5 bows, may fav. is a (p.s.e thunderflight) i shoot comp. & deer hunt,i have a thunderflight set up for each. the thunderflight is the simplest bow i have ever seen to tune. you can get this bow for around $130, i have 3 and would not trade for any other bow on the market. good luck you if i can

Response:

> Look at some Browning models.  They are adjustable over a 3 inch draw > length in case you are still growing.

> anyone know of a good first time bow for me, age 14.  I’ll be deer > hunting in florida.  any suggestions? > TRY A (PSE THUNDERFLIGHT) IT IS A EASY BOW TO TUNE AND TO SHOOT.

i have three of them,i’ve tried others and always come back to this bow. you can tune the bow to true center and shoot 5" fletching for hunting.i’ve got one bow set for hunting, one bow set for comp. and the other i keep for backup although i havent had to use it. my setup is as follows: pse thunderflight 30" draw pse overdraw 27" 2314 easton xx 75 68lbs draw weight this setup is 100% spine this bow has fast flight strings & cables(this is good because if the bow becomes out of time you can turn the cables insted of replaceing them) the bow sells for less then $200 i cant say enough good things about this bow!!!!

Response:

338 loads for deer

Question:

Please send me your favorite 338 Win Mag hand load medicine for deer hunting. Now skip the temptation to comment on my choice of overkill fer deer; I’m hunting around some nasty brown bear and lots of them. I have a clip loaded with 275 grain bear stoppers. I also want to hunt with a clip of deer poppers. How Bout it?

Response:

You may not be able to change clips in time if the bears are that nasty. Use a trophy bonded bullet of 225gr. or heavier.

Response:

The 338 will work just fine on the deer. I’ve been using a 338 Super (338 Mag punched out to 375 H&H) for years on deer/elk/moose/bear. Last year I shot 2 nice bull elk and this year 1 nice Muley, all at over 350 yards. For my money, the bigger the bullet, the easier they fall, with less meat damage and less chance for wind drift or deflected bullets. I would not mess around with 2 different loads. Go for the heaviest load that you need (bear). If you get into bear trouble while hunting deer, you probably won’t have time to change clips. Now, if you are in SERIOUS brown bear country you should be carrying at least a 375 H&H.

Response:

Which Bullet for Deer (Recommendation)

Question:

I recently returned from Montana where I harvested a 5 point whitetail with a Barnes 140 gr. XBT in a 30-06 caliber. I have tried many other bullets in the past but I have never been more impressed with the efficiency of this kill and lack of meat damage.  It groups five shots inside a dime at a 100 yds.  The people at Barnes are very helpful with finetuning suggestions for the load. Regards, Craig Moore

Response:

Since I used to live in Wisconson and know the lay of the land and I use a .308 and reload here is my choice. Since you are not going to be taking long shots in the woodlands and its a deer at max 200 lbs for a big one, go with the 165g nosler partition at a reasonable velocity. I use that at 2600 fps muzzel to hunt caribou here in Alaska where I live and have never had a failure as they call it. Good shot placement will give you a good kill with any of those bullets. I have just started trying the Sierra game kings out and they seem ok, the Barnes X seems to be a little over kill for whitetail, I have not used the other bullet so I have no opinion of what it performs like. I know that Federal and Hornady are making some premium ammo these days, so you might want to try a box or two of these to see how they work for you. Good luck.

Response:

Go for the swift a-frame or trophy bonded bear claw bullet in 165 grains

Response:

Next month, in Wisconsin, I’m going to be using a rifle for deer hunting for the first time.  I live in Illinois where I’ve only been using a shotgun (slugs) or a bow and arrow. I’ve got some very accurate .308 Winchester loads for my rifle, using the Sierra 168-grain Match Kings.  Since I’m going to be loading my own ammunition for the upcoming hunt, I need to select an accurate and effective bullet.  Understandably, I’m not going to be as "strict" in the accuracy department (i.e., I won’t expect the performance of Match Kings), though I will require reasonable accuracy for the shots I’ll be taking.  My primary concern is with terminal ballistics. I would like to hear from any of you that have experience with one (preferably, "all") of the following bullets for hunting deer. 1) Winchester Fail-Safe 2) Nosler Ballistic Tip 3) Barnes X-Bullet 4) Sierra Game King I’d like to keep the weight as close to 168-grains as possible for ballistic reasons.  Frankly, I’m leaning toward the Sierra Game King bullet, but I’d like to hear from any of you that would be willing to share your thoughts on the matter. Please respond via E-mail. Thanks in advance. Better Shooting, Russell E. Taylor

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Remington Slug Barrel

Question:

Looking for the ideal slug barrel for my 870 Remington Express Magnum (12 ga.)  I’ve heard of rifled slugs and rifled choke tubes and rifled barrels.  Has anyone done the research on this?  I get a different answer from each dealer I talk to.

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I have used a 20" rifle sighted slug barrel on my 870 express for about 10 years now.  I can keep shots within a 4.5 inch group at 100 yards(the limit at which I will "throw" slugs at animals).  I use remington 3" mag slugs and have never changed as I have gotten excellent results.  I have only taken two deer with the combo(don’t use it much) but in each case the deer was down HARD and FAST! Here’s the low down from where I stand … The hastings rifled or other FULLY rifled barrels WILL no doubt give you better accuracy from your gun IF you use the saboted slugs. You may have togo through several saboted slugs before finding the one that suits your barrel best, just like finding a bullet for a rifle…  If you are looking for a quick handling, short range slug gun out to 75 or 100 yards then save your money and buy the regular rifle barrel  about $90 vs the fully rifled at $200ish.  I use a shotgun when the brush is so thick that you have to crawl through and/or the weather is extremely inclement(too BAD for a scope, and for me, that’s pretty bad weather…).  The regular barrel has suited me fine, have never had to even adjust the sights fromthe factory.  I neglected to mention but I think you got it was that I use the "rifled slugs" from remington.  Oh, and don’t bother putting a load of buckshot in one of these little short barrels!  You’ll be luck if two pellets hit the target at 40 yards!  Stick with the slugs when deer hunting with a shotgun(my personal choice, have seen far to many deer wounded with buckshot, so no flames thanx) Gotta go, hope this has helped. "RUSHTON" Wapiti95

: Looking for the ideal slug barrel for my 870 Remington Express Magnum (12 : ga.)  I’ve heard of rifled slugs and rifled choke tubes and rifled : barrels.  Has anyone done the research on this?  I get a different answer : from each dealer I talk to.

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I have tested all the major makers slugs and about half a dozen sabots in by sons 870 and my 1100. The most accurate slug was the2 3/4", 1 oz. Winchester. We have killed deer with a single shot up to 130 paces. From a bench rest we have groups as small as 2.5" to 3" at 100 yards.Both guns are equipped with 2 to 7 variable scopes. Heavier slugs, even with greater powder charges, from all makers have unacceptable drop at 100 yards and we have never been able to get groups better than 6" to 8" from the bench. The BRI sabat gave even better groups but lacks knock down power. I can consistantly group the Winchester 1oz. better than my buddies 870 that has a Hastings riffled barrel irregardless of what he is shooting in it.

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>I have tested all the major makers slugs and about half a dozen sabots in >by sons >870 and my 1100. The most accurate slug was the2 3/4", 1 oz. Winchester. >We have killed deer with a single shot up to 130 paces. From a bench rest >we have groups as small as 2.5" to 3" at 100 yards.Both guns are equipped >with 2 to 7 variable scopes. Heavier slugs, even with greater powder >charges, from all makers have unacceptable drop at 100 yards and we have >never been able to get groups better than 6" to 8" from the bench. The BRI >sabat gave even better groups but lacks knock down power. I can >consistantly group the Winchester 1oz. better than my buddies 870 that has >a Hastings riffled barrel irregardless of what he is shooting in it.

Irish, My experience exactly matches yours. My Ithaca 37 Deerslayer with the smooth bore barrel will shoot consistant 3" groups at 100 yards with the Winchester 1oz slugs. Like you I tested all the foster and sabot slugs out there and none did better. I also obtained a fully rifled barrel ( Ithaca Mod 87 ) and that smooth bore Deerslayer barrel out shot the rifled barrel every time. Naturally I sold the rifled barrel, since the smoothbore barrel out shot it with cheaper ammo. regards, Ken Karcich

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->                           RE: REMINGTON SLUG BARREL >   Newsgroups: rec.hunting >          Post a followup article to newsgroup(s) >          Send e-mail reply to: Irish Jim >   Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) >I have tested all the major makers slugs and about half a dozen sabots in >by sons >870 and my 1100. The most accurate slug was the2 3/4", 1 oz. Winchester. >We have killed deer with a single shot up to 130 paces. From a bench rest >we have groups as small as 2.5" to 3" at 100 yards.Both guns are equipped >with 2 to 7 variable scopes. Heavier slugs, even with greater powder >charges, from all makers have unacceptable drop at 100 yards and we have >never been able to get groups better than 6" to 8" from the bench. The BRI >sabat gave even better groups but lacks knock down power. I can >consistantly group the Winchester 1oz. better than my buddies 870 that has >a Hastings riffled barrel irregardless of what he is shooting in it.

I too have experienced excellent results using conventional, Forster type slugs in my Rem. model 1100 using the non-rifled slug barrel.  My Remington will fairly consistently get 5 shot 3" groups at 50 yds. with the factory open sights using Remington’s 2-3/4" 1 oz. slugs.  I had a Browning A-5 that would do almost, but not quite this well with it’s non-rifled slug barrel at 50 yds. using the same Rem. 1 oz slugs.  Though I have not seen them, however, I have heard some really good things from some of my hunting buddies regarding the new saboted slugs out of rifled barrels.  It may depend on the individual shooter-gun-load combination.  I do believe, apparently like you however, that those of us who still have the older non-rifled slug barrels shouldn’t necessarily consider them as no longer good for anything other than tomato stakes!

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.22MAG

Question:

What kind of game can I kill with this round?  Are wolves and wild dogs at 100 yards, with a head shot, too much to ask for.  I shot a nutria this weekend from about 20 yds. and put a hole in the side of his head the size of a baseball.  Also, I have a 7722 mag by ruger.  Anyone out there have this gun.  What is the nmost accurate round for it.  Email thanks, todd

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You’ll have best luck with a 40gr. HP.  100 yards is a bit far for the .22 Mag, unless you take a head shot, but they are hard to make at that distance under field conditions.  It’s too easy to miss the brain and leave a terribly crippled animal. Keep your shots on coyotes under 50 yards and go for a heart shot.  I prefer CCI ammo in rimfire.

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>What kind of game can I kill with this round?  Are wolves and wild dogs >at 100 yards, with a head shot, too much to ask for.  I shot a nutria >this weekend from about 20 yds. and put a hole in the side of his head >the size of a baseball.  Also, I have a 7722 mag by ruger.  Anyone out >there have this gun.  What is the nmost accurate round for it.  Email

I’ve never shot a dog with my .22mag and I’d probably choose a larger calibre if it was available.  When you’ve only got 300ft/lbs of ME, shot placement is very critical on anything but rabbit-sized targets. Having said that – I have taken a 60lb pig at 30 yards and a fallow deer weighing around 100lbs or so with mine.  I did not set out to go deer hunting with this rifle (I use my SKS for that) but while doing my "bunny-busting" round one evening I came across a fallow doe which had been gutshot and had half her intestines hanging out.  My shot from about 40 yards was a mercy-shot.  It dropped her like a stone and on inspection, the bullet entered the front of her neck, completely severed the spinal cord and exited out the back leaving about a 1" exit hole.  I doubt that a body-shot would have been effective – especially since I found out that the gut-shot had been done with a .308 by a neighbour a few hours earlier (he had spent most of the following hours trying to track it and finish it off). If you really want to make a habbit of taking dog-sized animals out to 100 yards, get an SKS or .223 NZ Guns magazine http://www.actrix.gen.nz/biz/faxmail/nzguns

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