Black Bear Defense
Question:
>Think about it — if there were any PROOF that this were true, the >companies that make umpteen varieties of deer lure would find some way >to concoct a menses-derived bear lure. And more than one bear hunter >would be dragging the little woman around in the woods during her >’season’, or baiting with used Tampons.
snip I think you’ve found the answer to your question of how to make the big bucks. Produce the lure! And do send a bottle to Sarah Brady… Dennis
Response:
> sportsmens ethics are a > lot less demanding about eating them.
True. Usually. :-) > Far more hikers die by falling on rocks in National Parks, every year, > than have ever died by bear attack.
Yup, but it’s a gory damned mess when it happens. I’ll BE paranoid: I’m the only me I got and I plan to keep me "un-et" regardless of what folks think of me in the process. Tom
Response:
Bob Milek (now deceased) recommended using a 220 gr bullet designed > actually for metallic silloute (sic) shooting for use on bear in a .44 mag. > I worked up a fairly stout load for my .44 and it shoots very well. The > idea, Milek says, is that this bullet is designed for very little (but > some) expansion. I’ve never had to shoot a bear with it, but I do sleep > better when backpacking in bear areas with my .44 under my pillow loaded > with these rounds. > Instead of getting too technical like this guy above ^, (and I might add > lessening the risk of blowing your own head off if you have a bad dream), > if you’re camping in bear country and you’re afraid of bears, bring a > small yappy dog. You won’t hear of see bears when this type of alarm goes > off.
The only problem I see with this is that most people would want to bring the .44 to "turn off" the alarm. 
Or did you mean that the alarm should be fed to the bear? — Cordially, Michael Key "Extremism in the pursuit of prudence is no vice"– Greasy Fingers, Chicago Gangsters
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->If your lady is having a period, she’s bait. That’s well proven. > Actually, that’s well rumored. Extensive research will reveal that > some folks suspect it’s true, but not a single fact or experimental > result supports the supposition. >Ask the National Park Service. They’ve got the statistics. Lots of cases >of bears tearing into tents with menstruating women inside. > Not conclusive. What else did they have in the tent? Food? > Cosmetics? > Anyway, the bears will be so interested in the dogs that other factors > become insignificant…
What I’ve read is that of the handful of attacks on camping and hiking women, a hugely disproportionate number were having periods. Certainly, there have never really been many attacks on men OR women, by bears. The bear-attack thread has just been fantasy gun bs, but it’s been fun. I pondered plugging a black bear that charged innocently by me last year, but I carry mostly because of people: sportsmens ethics are a lot less demanding about eating them. Far more hikers die by falling on rocks in National Parks, every year, than have ever died by bear attack.
Response:
>Hi, >Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife >and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before >that we and our dogs ran into bears. >Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? >We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us. >Thanks a lot
Outside of carrying a large caliber handgun I can only think off maybe the strongest pepper spray you can buy. And carry a large hunting knife in case yu came face to face in cmbat. I myself would preferr to carry a large caliber handgun, at least a .44 Magnum with large and heaver bullet 260-300gr. So for the dissapointing response, but those bears at times can really be aggressive. now if they were brown bears they are a lot less agressive, you really have to provoke them to attack…..
Response:
So just because someone’s not a hunter, they have no right to be in the woods? I take offense at elitist attitudes, no matter if they are from enviro wacko’s, or whoever. If someone wants some protection other than a firearm, there is pepper spray. BTW, for suitable handguns, a .45ACP is likely to only piss off a bear. The .44mag and .45 colt(in modern guns and loads) are a minimum, and the .454, .45 5 shot’s, .475 and .500 Linebaughs are much better choices, though expensive. If your going to carry something for bears, be damn sure its up to the job, and you are very proficient with it. Its much better to be unarmed and cautios, than armed with the wrong gun and think your safe. Paul
Response:
> Hi, > Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife > and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before > that we and our dogs ran into bears. > Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? > We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us.
Carry the pepper spray. Not the small cannisters but the large cannisters with the pistol like grip. You can get them in outdoor shops (the ones that specialize in upper end backpacking equipment.)
Response:
> I agree with your response and while I don’t disagree with your bullet > selection completely, I would like to offer another opinion. Several years > ago, Bob Milek (now deceased) recommended using a 220 gr bullet designed > actually for metallic silloute (sic) shooting for use on bear in a .44 mag. > I worked up a fairly stout load for my .44 and it shoots very well. The > idea, Milek says, is that this bullet is designed for very little (but > some) expansion. I’ve never had to shoot a bear with it, but I do sleep > better when backpacking in bear areas with my .44 under my pillow loaded > with these rounds.
Instead of getting too technical like this guy above ^, (and I might add lessening the risk of blowing your own head off if you have a bad dream), if you’re camping in bear country and you’re afraid of bears, bring a small yappy dog. You won’t hear of see bears when this type of alarm goes off. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Another Bill > >Hi, > >Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife > >and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before > >that we and our dogs ran into bears. > >Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? > >We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us. > >Thanks a lot > Outside of carrying a large caliber handgun I can only think off maybe > the strongest pepper spray you can buy. And carry a large hunting > knife in case yu came face to face in cmbat. > I myself would preferr to carry a large caliber handgun, at least a > .44 Magnum with large and heaver bullet 260-300gr. > So for the dissapointing response, but those bears at times can really > be aggressive. now if they were brown bears they are a lot less > agressive, you really have to provoke them to attack…..
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Response:
I agree with your response and while I don’t disagree with your bullet selection completely, I would like to offer another opinion. Several years ago, Bob Milek (now deceased) recommended using a 220 gr bullet designed actually for metallic silloute (sic) shooting for use on bear in a .44 mag. I worked up a fairly stout load for my .44 and it shoots very well. The idea, Milek says, is that this bullet is designed for very little (but some) expansion. I’ve never had to shoot a bear with it, but I do sleep better when backpacking in bear areas with my .44 under my pillow loaded with these rounds. Another Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi, >Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife >and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before >that we and our dogs ran into bears. >Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? >We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us. >Thanks a lot > Outside of carrying a large caliber handgun I can only think off maybe > the strongest pepper spray you can buy. And carry a large hunting > knife in case yu came face to face in cmbat. > I myself would preferr to carry a large caliber handgun, at least a > .44 Magnum with large and heaver bullet 260-300gr. > So for the dissapointing response, but those bears at times can really > be aggressive. now if they were brown bears they are a lot less > agressive, you really have to provoke them to attack…..
Response:
> >Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife >and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before >that we and our dogs ran into bears. >Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? >We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us.
What I have learned from years of hiking in black bear country, listening to friends stories, and reading bear stories: 1) Most times bears prefer not to be seen unless at a distance. 2) "Normal" bears can be dangerous when they smell food in your pack, possibly during female menstruation, etc., and when you surprise them, especially with cubs nearby. 3) Heavily travelled areas are most likely to have rogue teenage males that have learned bipods are great sources of food, one way or another. They are very aggressive and not scared off by usualt "make noise" attempts. If you feel uneasy about the area, stay out of it! If you want to go into the area anyway, then go prepared. Bells, pepper spray, and firearm for BOTH of you. A bear attack happens so fast that if the armed person is the first victim there is little time to react. The remaining person must be armed to render assistance. Anything is better than nothing, bigger is better. A radio or cell phone to call for medical help is also a good idea.
Response:
Hi, Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before that we and our dogs ran into bears. Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us. Thanks a lot
Response:
> Hi, > Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife > and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before > that we and our dogs ran into bears. > Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? > We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us. > Thanks a lot
Bears and dogs are a bad combination. Nothing pisses off a bear faster than a barking dog. The very best advice I can give you for reducing the chance of having a fatal confrontation with a bear is to leave your dog at home. ESPECIALLY if you don’t have a gun!! With a gun you may be able to finish what you’re foolish dog starts, but with out one, whatcha gonna do when 1) your dog pisses off the bear 2) the bear chases your dog 3) the dog tries to hide behind you for protection Nope, bears and dogs are bad. Human/bear encounters are usually low key things where everyone sorta goes their own way, perhaps a little scared, but physically ok. A human/bear encounter with a dog involved is a human/pissed off bear encounter, which has a lot higher chance of some human being badly injured or killed. So, if you’re NOT willing to carry a gun, including learning how to use it under really high stress situations, and if you’re not willing to show the judgement needed to leave your dog behind, about all that is left is to pray the the good Lord takes pity on you ’cause it’s out of your hands. Tom
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife > and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before > that we and our dogs ran into bears. > Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? > We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us. > Thanks a lot > Bears and dogs are a bad combination. Nothing pisses off a bear faster > than a barking dog. The very best advice I can give you for reducing the > chance of having a fatal confrontation with a bear is to leave your dog > at home. ESPECIALLY if you don’t have a gun!! > With a gun you may be able to finish what you’re foolish dog starts, but > with out one, whatcha gonna do when > 1) your dog pisses off the bear > 2) the bear chases your dog > 3) the dog tries to hide behind you for protection > Nope, bears and dogs are bad. > Human/bear encounters are usually low key things where everyone sorta > goes their own way, perhaps a little scared, but physically ok. > A human/bear encounter with a dog involved is a human/pissed off bear > encounter, which has a lot higher chance of some human being badly > injured or killed. > So, if you’re NOT willing to carry a gun, including learning how to use > it under really high stress situations, and if you’re not willing to show > the judgement needed to leave your dog behind, about all that is left is > to pray the the good Lord takes pity on you ’cause it’s out of your > hands. > Tom
I would give a hearty second & amen to everything that Tom has said, but would add a couple of common precautions: 1) Tie some jingly bells to your fanny pack, handlebars, or whatever. Sounds silly, but backpackers do it all the time. They have great hearing (bears, I mean), and will generally get out of the way if they hear you coming. The first time you see one plodding away across a meadow, you’ll quit feeling ridiculous. 2) Get a pepper fogger, the biggest you can buy, one each for you & your wife. There was an article in Petersen’s Hunting last year about two hunters who blinded a charging mother bear with pepper foggers (although one of them got injured in the process), and managed to make her retreat. Not a sovereign remedy, but if you are going to be going through bear country with a barking dog, it gives you a last-ditch option for your own defense. — Jay Stranahan
Response:
>Think about what he just said about menstruation. Women having periods >have repeatedly been attacked in the National Parks. Extremely well >documented.
Bull. It’s extremely well quoted, not well documented. Think about it — if there were any PROOF that this were true, the companies that make umpteen varieties of deer lure would find some way to concoct a menses-derived bear lure. And more than one bear hunter would be dragging the little woman around in the woods during her ’season’, or baiting with used Tampons. This supposition got to be popular from "Night of the Grizzlies" after the kids were killed in Glacier Park. It became fact via repetitive quotes in all the other ‘bear tales’ books, and now is accepted as gospel. Wish I could figure out how to make money from that phenomenon… — San Marcos Pistolero
Response:
>If your lady is having a period, she’s bait. That’s well proven.
Actually, that’s well rumored. Extensive research will reveal that some folks suspect it’s true, but not a single fact or experimental result supports the supposition. >Ask the National Park Service. They’ve got the statistics. Lots of cases >of bears tearing into tents with menstruating women inside.
Not conclusive. What else did they have in the tent? Food? Cosmetics? Anyway, the bears will be so interested in the dogs that other factors become insignificant… — San Marcos Pistolero
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife > >and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before > >that we and our dogs ran into bears. > >Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? > >We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us. > What I have learned from years of hiking in black bear country, > listening to friends stories, and reading bear stories: > 1) Most times bears prefer not to be seen unless at a distance. > 2) "Normal" bears can be dangerous when they smell food in your pack, > possibly during female menstruation, etc., and when you surprise them, > especially with cubs nearby.
Think about what he just said about menstruation. Women having periods have repeatedly been attacked in the National Parks. Extremely well documented. Here’s another bit of reality: when you enter the wilderness, one of the things you do is intentionally accept more of nature’s risks. If you do stupid stuff, like lots of hunters who haul meat INTO the wilderness, you’ll naturally worry about survival, pack hand cannons (.454, .44mag etc) and electronics. If, however, you’re actually into your wilderness experience, you’ll not have meat along unless you kill it, and you’ll not be pedaling around in the boonies with a woman having a period, ignorant of the risks that adds. Take a little gun along. If a bear attacks, shoot the dog for it. JK
Response:
Tom It was interesting reading your analsis of how Black Bears react to dogs and an individuals choices when "cruising His neighborhood" when he (Mr. Bear), gets upset when a barking dog steps on his front lawn! Unfortunately I believe the question was asked by a Yuppie/ X’er weenie type believing that nature is best served by riding a mountain bike in places revered by animals that have been there for centuries and have survival instincts that sometimes require them to make a pile of blood, bones and torn clothes out of the someone who rubs them the wrong way. This is not to mention a Purina fed terd/ pee machine stinkin’ up the woods so scared of the senso-stimuli bombardment he’s getting during the Utopia Day outing with Mr. and Mrs. Moneybags, that when an encounter with a bear comes up little Fido thinks it one of the new petstore toys! Look, you want to survive a Mean Ass Bear? Thats the only one you’re going to see because unless he intends on raising fur , showing teeth and slinging dirt which is his way of saying: "Ok Butthead, thats it I’m pissed and you’re gonna fight", he’s going to dissappear into the trees and wait until you leave then sniff around to see if your enviro-conscious selves left anything around to eat! By the way, If you are too paranoid to learn how to properly learn to care/carry/use a sizeable sidearm (.357 Mag., 45ACP, 44 Mag.),while "Trekking through the woods" with Spot, I would suggest not going there anymore. The Bears won’t mind!
Response:
> > Hi, > Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife > and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before > that we and our dogs ran into bears. > Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? > We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us. > Thanks a lot
If your lady is having a period, she’s bait. That’s well proven. Ask the National Park Service. They’ve got the statistics. Lots of cases of bears tearing into tents with menstruating women inside. No way my girlfriend would tolerate being left behind, if I were hiking somewhere. JK
Response:
>Who could give me some advice regarding black bear defense. My Wife >and I take the mountain bikes to remote trails and it happened before >that we and our dogs ran into bears. >Does anybody have good ideas about protecting ourselves and our dogs? >We don’t want to carry a handgun/gun with us.
All sorts of folks could give you advice re: protecting your self, wife, and dogs from bears. Unfortunately, most of it is worth what folks call it: their $.02. Here is MY $.02: preface) Black bears are pretty shy and retiring creatures. I have heard (never needed to try it) of folks chasing bears out of their path by raising their arms (looking big) and shouting. In Shadow of the Forest (I forget the author), of several hundreds of black bears trapped and approached, only one or two charged. Of course, if a 600 lb bear decides that he wants your ticket punched, for whatever reason, there is damn little you can do about it, regardless of the ordinance strapped to your hip or the number of chili peppers per ounce of fluid in your spray bottle (this doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try everything in your power to drive the bear off, though). a) Don’t surprise the bears; that is, wear bear bells or some such. Your dogs can wear one on their collars as well. b) Keep your dogs out of carrion (good luck). The only black bear horror stories I have heard occured when people were poking around something the bear wanted untouched, either cubs or food. c) As a matter of last resort, get pepper spray for yourself and your wife. The F&G folks endorse this approach. I feel much better with a large caliber handgun. The odds of a bear attacking either your dogs or your selves is pretty low, but should it happen you’ve got *something* to try and fend it off. <unsubstantiated rumor alert> Having said that, I have heard that pepper spray does not work on black bears accustomed to feeding on garbage. Like I said, personally I feel much better with a .44; nothing gets used to that. Happy trails, tq
